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Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

theguardian.com

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Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#391

Post by complianceowl »

bradhanson wrote: post #335
saghm wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article doesn't mention it, but am I right in assuming this basically comes from McDonald's? There are a lot of places around the world that copy the "'s" where it doesn't exist natively, but only for restaurant names or similar -- like "Bob's" is the McDonald's clone in Brazil [1]. For whatever reason, it drives me crazy when I hear people refer to Pizzeria Uno as "Uno's". I've had conversations about it multi…

To be honest, even when going to the original Pizzeria Uno (or Due) I’ll probably still call it “Uno’s” ‘cause it’s a weird part of the Chicago dialect. We do the same thing for the grocery store Jewel-Osco, calling it “da Jewels”

Fellow Chicagoan here. It's funny you say that. My wife calls Jewel-Osco "Jewels" lol. I am just starting to realize that not everyone talks this way haha.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#392

Post by chromanoid »

crazygringo wrote: post #264

The article doesn't mention it, but am I right in assuming this basically comes from McDonald's? There are a lot of places around the world that copy the "'s" where it doesn't exist natively, but only for restaurant names or similar -- like "Bob's" is the McDonald's clone in Brazil [1]. I'm mostly curious whether "Rosi's" and "Kati's" in the article are seen by Germans as intentionally trying to look "foreign", rathe…

I would say "Kati's Ecke" (urks) should look modern (and fails at that, looks like cargo cult to me) or is an unintentional error of the owner because they don't know better (maybe obligatory English lessons in school compromised the actual rules of German). I am sure it doesn't look exotic to most Germans. We actually use the apostrophe in cases where adding the possessive s is problematic. E.g. "Felix' Ecke"

There is a very ugly mix of German and English we call Denglish in German.

And there are many "English sounding" things that are not English or also a horrible mix up for marketing purposes.

E.g. Handy for smartphone. It doesn't look exotic, but English which is usually considered to be something modern.

And then there is a similar concept as the Idiotenapostroph which is the Deppenleerzeichen which is a space between combined words that are usually and famously not separated by space in correct German.

All those things are usually used in amateurish marketing and look just like that to the average German grammar enthusiast.

On the other hand especially in many professional fields English conquers the professional slang with gusto of the participants. A very hilarious take on such Denglish for software developers: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c2V4bOL1jgM

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#393

Post by int_19h »

Supernaut wrote: post #207
lagniappe wrote: post #149

Also, another common one I see more these days is "it's" where it should be "its". If you can not substitute a usage of "it's" for "it has", "it was", or "it is", then you meant to say "its". It is hard to even be angry about it, I think the language should be changed so that any instances of "its" -> "it's" to eliminate the exception.

In certain academic circles, it's been popular for several decades now to exhibit indifference to the general decline in observance of rules such as this. I find that attitude very regrettable. I can't be the only person who has found themselves having to repeatedly re-read a passage of text to discern its meaning, because the author is ignorant of, or indifferent to the use of apostrophes and/or other forms of punct…

This particular case is probably not the best example, though, given that the lack of apostrophe for "its" is inconsistent with its use for possessive case for regular nouns in the same circumstances. If we really wanted to maximize readability, we'd use apostrophe for possession everywhere (including "he's" for "his") and use something else entirely to denote the contraction of "is" and "has" - preferably two different markers since these can also be ambiguous in many cases. Or vice versa, use apostrophe for contraction and e.g. hyphen for possessive: "it's" vs "it-s" etc.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#394

Post by ASUfool »

DonHopkins wrote: post #362
crazygringo wrote: post #264

The article doesn't mention it, but am I right in assuming this basically comes from McDonald's? There are a lot of places around the world that copy the "'s" where it doesn't exist natively, but only for restaurant names or similar -- like "Bob's" is the McDonald's clone in Brazil [1]. I'm mostly curious whether "Rosi's" and "Kati's" in the article are seen by Germans as intentionally trying to look "foreign", rathe…

I never liked Hopkins', but Hopkins's is even worse, and Hopkin's is horrible. But how are you supposed to spell something that belongs to several Hopkinses's? This is why I never tried to start a restaurant chain.

You could be like Doug Hopkins here in Arizona and start a firm to buy hauses.

https://www.doughopkins.com/

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#395

Post by kps »

DonHopkins wrote: post #362
crazygringo wrote: post #264

The article doesn't mention it, but am I right in assuming this basically comes from McDonald's? There are a lot of places around the world that copy the "'s" where it doesn't exist natively, but only for restaurant names or similar -- like "Bob's" is the McDonald's clone in Brazil [1]. I'm mostly curious whether "Rosi's" and "Kati's" in the article are seen by Germans as intentionally trying to look "foreign", rathe…

I never liked Hopkins', but Hopkins's is even worse, and Hopkin's is horrible. But how are you supposed to spell something that belongs to several Hopkinses's? This is why I never tried to start a restaurant chain.

Belongs to members of your family? Nickname yourself ‘Hop’, and it's Hops' kins'.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#396

Post by int_19h »

croes wrote: post #361
deng wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, unless you are able to hear a difference between "Tea's Buchladen" and "Teas Buchladen".

It is because it's just giving in to the habit of some people.

There's an obvious upside for those people. Is there any obvious downside for everyone else?

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#397

Post by saghm »

bunderbunder wrote: post #336
saghm wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article doesn't mention it, but am I right in assuming this basically comes from McDonald's? There are a lot of places around the world that copy the "'s" where it doesn't exist natively, but only for restaurant names or similar -- like "Bob's" is the McDonald's clone in Brazil [1]. For whatever reason, it drives me crazy when I hear people refer to Pizzeria Uno as "Uno's". I've had conversations about it multi…

This sounds very Midwestern to me. Where I come from that would happen a lot. It wasn't necessarily that people didn't know the real name of the place. It functioned more like an inflection that helps to distinguish between the company, and a specific storefront operated by that company. Compare it to the distinction between "Alice" and "Alice's". Alice is the person, and Alice's is her house. For example, you you'd…

My family is all from either New England or New York, so it might not just be a Midwestern thing anymore!

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#398

Post by int_19h »

School-Cotton wrote: post #257
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #59

What they need is learn from Canada and have a language police. Go around and fine business that don't follow the rules of German properly.

Nothing like what you described exists in Canada. You are presumably referring to the OQLF (a provincial institution, not a “Canadian” one) which enforces French as the dominant public language in Quebec. Given that Quebec, despite being surrounded by the Anglosphere, hasn’t ended up like Louisiana or Ireland where French or Irish as the primary native language is a distant memory, suggests that their efforts are suc…

It is rather telling that Quebec had to repeatedly to use the "notwithstanding clause" of the Canadian Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms (which is basically a legal way for the province of saying "fuck you, we don't care about your pesky rights") to do that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_33_of_the_Canadian_Cha...

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#399

Post by saghm »

alistairSH wrote: post #389
saghm wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article doesn't mention it, but am I right in assuming this basically comes from McDonald's? There are a lot of places around the world that copy the "'s" where it doesn't exist natively, but only for restaurant names or similar -- like "Bob's" is the McDonald's clone in Brazil [1]. For whatever reason, it drives me crazy when I hear people refer to Pizzeria Uno as "Uno's". I've had conversations about it multi…

...it drives me crazy when I hear people refer to Pizzeria Uno as "Uno's" Pedant Alert! The chain's name is "Uno Pizzeria & Grill". You're not wrong, but the actual ordering of the name makes it less clear to a casual observer that there is no person named "Uno". And the domain the company uses is "unos.com", so at the corporate entity has accepted the name.

> And the domain the company uses is "unos.com", so at the corporate entity has accepted the name.

Yeah, I've heard servers there say "welcome to Uno's", so I know I've already lost the battle. Like I said, it's not a rational annoyance though, so that doesn't make me feel any better when I hear it.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#400

Post by bitwize »

int_19h wrote: post #387
bitwize wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife still fumes that they don't make kids type two spaces after sentence-terminal punctuation anymore. And she still hasn't processed that periods at the end of sentences are, in certain contexts, considered inappropriately arrogant and to be avoided.

I can see how "unnecessary" periods could be considered excessively formal in some contexts like texting, but ... arrogant?

Yeah, apparently it makes you come off as a know-it-all in texting or DMing,and is therefore considered rude.
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