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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#391

Post by Aaronstotle »

ossyrial wrote: post #374
edanm wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should require incontrovertible proof. There's really no such thing. Instead, there is a very high burden of proof, there's a lot of protections built into the process, and, most important, it's an adversarial process in which one side is standing up for the defendant. If the evidence isn't good enough, the defendant's lawyer can and must show that to the jury, with them making the final decision on who is right…

> There's really no such thing. Which, in my opinion, is a fantastic argument against the death penalty. "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf

I am currently of the belief that the death penalty should be reserved for the most extreme of the most extreme circumstances. The Boston Bomber & The Park School Shooter are two prime examples.

There is a very high burden of proof for both of them and to my knowledge, no doubts as to their guilt. I personally find it morally reprehensible individuals like themselves are still gifted with life after the lives they ruined.

Maybe this is a mindset I will grow out of as I grow older.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#392

Post by amiga386 »

MikeAmelung wrote: post #295
diogenes_atx wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full quote from the article in justia.com states the following: "In November of 1999, University City police approached Asaro to speak with her about the murder. Asaro told the police that Williams admitted to her that he had killed Gayle. The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glen…

I was just helping everyone understand that your important clarification, was in fact, wrong. Since I wasn't on the jury, I can't say whether or not I would have been ok with the death penalty in this case, although the murder was particularly heinous.

It doesn't matter how heinous the murder was if you have the wrong suspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU

> Priti Patel: this is about having deterrents...

> Ian Hislop: It's not a deterrent killing the wrong people!

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#393

Post by EForEndeavour »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #122
EForEndeavour wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So conviction is a "trap door" of evidence weight? If someone is convicted based on evidence that is later shown to be totally insufficient to support that conviction, this new information does nothing to overturn the conviction?

A lot of rights (like your right to remain silent, your right to a speedy trial, your right to bear arms, your right to vote, your rights to be free from search without reason) have been interpreted only apply up to the point of conviction. So yes, things get MUCH tougher once convicted as many rights no longer apply to you or are stripped from you. In this case, up until conviction you are presumed innocent and guil…

So falsify and/or misrepresent evidence just long enough to fool a jury. If the ruse is discovered one minute after conviction, who cares? Person's convicted now, doesn't matter?

With the caveat that this is coming from someone with zero training in law: what a load of horseshit.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#394

Post by jasonlotito »

awb wrote: post #359
jasonlotito wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they explain why they convened a board to research the topic to get to the bottom of this and then disbanded the board before they finished? Seems kind of shady when the government says "We are not sure, we need to do more research before we do this" and then never actually do that research and just kill someone? Either you trust the government, and agree that they should have waited. Or you don't trust the gover…

The previous governor stayed the execution and created the commission to investigate which lasted 6 years until the new governor was elected. The new governor disbanded the commission. They were from different political parties and probably had different views on the death penalty / the use of state resources.

So you agree they should have waited.

Gotcha. Thanks!

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#395

Post by karpatic »

arp242 wrote: post #370
WheatMillington wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State executions are literally, by definition, not murder.

Legally speaking Stalin's purges were also not murder, by definition. It's obvious the previous poster was making a point of morality, not legality. You can of course disagree with that morality. That's fine. But going "but akshually the law says..." is being highly obtuse.

Chiming in like this makes me wounder what your view on abortion is. I'm not asking, though.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#396

Post by dialup_sounds »

diogenes_atx wrote: post #267
MikeAmelung wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glenn Roberts. The laptop was identified as the one stolen from Gayle's residence." https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/2003/sc-...

The full quote from the article in justia.com states the following: "In November of 1999, University City police approached Asaro to speak with her about the murder. Asaro told the police that Williams admitted to her that he had killed Gayle. The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glen…

In your prior comment you say that Asaro was incentivized by a reward offered in May 1999, but that doesn't agree with waiting for the police to approach her in November.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#397

Post by giraffe_lady »

BadHumans wrote: post #390
giraffe_lady wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they should have done it in 09 then or one of the many other times. It's been half a century since roe they've had opportunity if it had been important to them.

Formally codifying abortion was not a popular issue among voters in 09. In other words, you're somewhat right, it wasn't important to them because it wasn't important to voters. People seem to think that this issue has always had the support it has now.

[flagged]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#398

Post by sdiufshi »

ruined wrote: post #286
voisin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that the girlfriend and jailhouse snitch both were looking to get the $10k reward money for his conviction. And that’s the only way the third point (had the items in the car) was known (from the girlfriend).

asaro had more reasons to make these claims https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/us/marcellus-williams-missour... >And though Picus’ laptop was recovered, the prosecuting attorney’s office says Roberts told investigators Williams said he’d gotten it from Asaro – a claim Roberts reiterated in an affidavit signed in 2020. Jurors at trial never heard this assertion, which the prosecutor’s motion says illustrates “the person w…

What amazes me is how routine this practice is to this very day. It is commonplace for police to use vile tactics and tell patent lies. The entire system is rigged in a way that cares not about truth but about winning. When you measure things in conviction rate this is bound to happen.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#399

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

xapata wrote: post #335
diogenes_atx wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the police were able to establish that the ruler and calculator belonged to the victim, it is merely circumstantial evidence. It does not prove Williams was the killer. Here is a quick summary of the main issues: (1) There is no reliable evidence that Williams is guilty of the crime; (2) The DNA evidence from the crime scene does not match Williams; (3) Numerous legal experts, including St. Louis County Prose…

Isn't the jury responsible for determining what's reliable evidence?

The jury didn't get to see everything. It certainly didn't get to see the results of dna testing that happened after the trial.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#400

Post by fakedang »

ruph123 wrote: post #170
n1b0m wrote: post #22

There was another execution in South Carolina on Friday despite new evidence of innocence https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/20/south-caroli...

That case is even worse as it rested fully on the testimony of the other robber, which he made to get a lesser sentence and later rescinded: > Prosecutors had no forensic evidence connecting Allah to the shooting. Surveillance footage at the store showed two masked men with guns, but they were not identifiable. The state’s case rested on testimony from Allah’s friend and co-defendant, Steven Golden, who was also char…

> Golden said he agreed to plead guilty and testify when prosecutors assured him he would not face the death penalty or a life sentence – a deal that was not disclosed to the jury.
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