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Boeing workers vote to strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#391

Post by tjpnz »

fragmede wrote: post #146
echelon wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing engineers should leave and start their own company. "American dynamism" is hot right now and there should be ample funding available. Lots of the old dinosaurs are being nipped at by nimble upstarts like Anduril.

Have you seen how much lambasting Boom Aerospace gets every time they come up? Starting a new aerospace company isn't for the faint of heart!

They're an aerospace company? It seems I've been confusing them for a lobby group trying to remove urban noise regulations.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#392

Post by hinkley »

rob74 wrote: post #62
hinkley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They started new factories in new states to try to break the unions in Seattle.

...with resounding success: > In 2019, following the discovery of exterior damage on planes manufactured in Charleston [the non-unionized factory], for a time Qatar Airways would only accept delivery of Dreamliners assembled in Everett [the unionized factory]. (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_South_Carolina#Quality-... ) But then they moved all 787 production to North Charleston, so problem solved.

> But then they moved all 787 production to North Charleston, so problem solved.

That better be some top shelf sarcasm.

It’s shameful what’s happened to Boeing. I worked there during the fall. After the bribery scandal, but before MD broke it. It was still okay-ish until they butchered their R&D dept. That’s not a healthy company.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#394

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #389
toomuchtodo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Have the government step in, nationalize Boeing, give the union a board seat, and keep shipping. The problem is Boeing management and their board enabling the train wreck; don't build from scratch, refactor.

There is not one union, there are multiple employee unions, all fighting for their piece. Not only are there multiple unions, but even within a union, the older members usually vote against younger members. It’s not a terrible idea, but also not a simple panacea to aligning interests in a business where payoffs happen decades in the future.

[deleted]

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#395

Post by lucianbr »

tbrownaw wrote: post #302
ryandrake wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, it's possible that both are bad. The root problem is that the rich and powerful[1] face no consequences for wrongdoing. It's endemic to every part of life, and nothing gets done about it because the rich and powerful make the rules. It really doesn't matter if they happen to be aligned with "Team Corporation" or "Team Government". They are equally unaccountable to justice. 1: Rich and Powerful are both the…

> the rich and powerful[1] face no consequences for wrongdoing. Bernie Madoff. Jeff Epstein & Ghislane Maxwell. Sam Bankman-Fried. Elizabeth Holmes. Harvey Weinstein. I get that sometimes you'll see things like Hunter Biden's tax issues being allowed to pass the statute of limitations, but a universal "the rich never face consequences" is just plain false.

If you approach it with mathemathical universality, yes, it is false.

But what about "95% of the time 95% of the rich do not face consequences"? It's still a huge problem, and probably what the commenter meant.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#396

Post by dh2022 »

mlindner wrote: post #214

They're voting to strike right as the new CEO gets in? That's kind of the worst time possible to improve the situation at Boeing. All you're doing is creating an antagonistic environment with your boss. So dumb.

So when Boeing was shopping this summer for a new boss I was thinking the new boss would negotiate with the board worker pay increases related to the upcoming union contract.

It looks like the new boss was not smart enough to ask for a big worker pay increase (or maybe did not ask at all). Looks like not a good place for Boeing.

BTW - there is another contract due in 2026. Hmm, another strike in a couple of years? Will Boeing be in a better place or worse place in 2 years? Interesting times ahead.

https://investors.boeing.com/investors/news/press-release-de...

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#397

Post by danielodievich »

During national neighbor night out few weeks ago I met a couple who just moved to the neighborhood, wife is a doctor and husband is a Boeing engineer in the material science something rather. Me being a huge Boeing fan we've immediately connected on the topic of Boeing's issues. His view from inside echoed mine - too many MBAs, too much focus on financial engineering and stock buybacks and shareholder returns (he was LIVID about Boeing having no cash now because they sent it back to shareholders), too little focus on engineering. I touched on the nextgen (79?7) program and he just shook his head. And the CEO based out of wherever but not Seattle is just a huge spit into everyone's face.

I don't think Boeing is going down due to it being well, Boeing, but it will likely need to get bailed out if it goes on like that.

So go machinists!

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#398

Post by noisy_boy »

deepsun wrote: post #356
jandrese wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand I can't blame any engineer that wants to flee, but on the other Boeing really can't afford any more brain drain. We are already seeing the results of years of forcing experienced but well paid engineers out and outsourcing their jobs. Planes literally falling out of the sky, but some nice fat executive bonuses.

That is a feature of capitalism and effective market. If a company falls a little bit below competition -- market forces it do dive even deeper, die quicker. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I've seen communism, and it's much worse to help failing companies -- they tend to fail even more instead of improving. The problem now is that international market is not really fair, trade treaties help too little.

> If a company falls a little bit below competition -- market forces it do dive even deeper, die quicker.

Feature of nature too, the jungle forces the weak to die quicker.

One more argument for companies != people: we will be a lot more ok for this to happen to companies vs it happening to people.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#399

Post by SoftTalker »

Maken wrote: post #212
echelon wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing engineers should leave and start their own company. "American dynamism" is hot right now and there should be ample funding available. Lots of the old dinosaurs are being nipped at by nimble upstarts like Anduril.

I seriously wonder how long it would take for a team of engineers to produce a competitive commercial airplane, from planning to the first prototype, if they started right now. Also, is it viable to produce something like the A320 in low quantities when airlines need fleets in the hundreds?

> I seriously wonder how long it would take for a team of engineers to produce a competitive commercial airplane.

About 20 years for a fully-certified new commercial airliner design. They could have experimental prototypes flying much sooner of course. Even in China, their state-owned effort to develop a new narrow-body airliner took about 15 years and that's very likely with the CCP greasing the skids for them as much as they could. They are still not certified in Europe or North America.

And some of the problems we've seen with Boeing have nothing to do with engineering, but problems with subcontractors, materials, and assembly.

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