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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#391

Post by Kye »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #388
Kye wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a long way from Windows development for a while, so missed that shift. I knew it was coming since moving functionality to the open source thing seemed to be Microsoft's target (with some skeptics doubting it, understandably). I didn't know it already happened.

The shift is slow, but it has been ongoing for years, and is pretty much wrapping up now. .NET 5 was released in November, 2020 and that was the "beginning of the end" of the shift over. For what I do, it's not really "Windows development" in any meaningful way. It is business functionality with HTTP, message queues etc, developed on mostly Windows laptops, and deployed to mostly Linux instances on the cloud. Not tha…

It sounds like .NET is on the way toward becoming the Java competitor it set out to be.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#393

Post by School-Cotton »

jcranmer wrote: post #268
School-Cotton wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> English does have distinct words for the two connotations of free--"liberal" and "gratuitous". Sorry but no it doesn’t. These words have the other meanings you mentioned, but they don’t include either of the meanings of “free”. If you said you were giving away “gratuitous software”, native English speakers wouldn’t know what you were talking about. The only way to understand it would be to realize that those words…

The word "liberal" definitely has the same definition of "libre"--ever hear of the term "liberal democracy"? That's exactly the same kind free they're talking about. "Gratuitous" also has that definition, though it's far less common in use. See the dictionary definition, e.g., here: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gratuitous > 2. given, done, bestowed, or obtained without charge or payment; free; complimentary. It'…

The “liberal” in “liberal democracy” doesn’t mean the same thing as the “free” in “free software”. It’s the license that is liberal, not the software itself, so at most I’d admit that “liberally licensed software” means the same thing.

Similarly you would say someone who’s gotten out of prison is now “free” (or libre in French or Spanish) but you wouldn’t say they’re “liberal”.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#394

Post by lelanthran »

pantalaimon wrote: post #377
rahkiin wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is like saying C is not cross platform because there is not a library for making desktop apps that use native components on all those platforms.

back when .NET was first launched it was advertised as the new way of making desktop applications on Windows. Visual C# made it very easy to design GUI interfaces. So this "it's all for backend now" notion is surprising.

Same with java - designed for embedded set top devices, pivoted to backend services.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#395

Post by keepamovin »

dtech wrote: post #358
Kye wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For historical context: this was before the conclusion of the antitrust case that led Microsoft to start softening its stance toward open source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... . This was the same year Antitrust came out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_(film) Any support for open source or cross-platform stuff was a bulwark against claims of monopoly abuse, but none of it wor…

I'd argue that the dominance of Linux on cloud and Azure growing business is what's causing Microsoft to have an ongoing interest in linux support. A factoid that's shared sometimes (no idea if true) is that Microsoft now employs more Linux kernel engineers than Windows kernel engineers due to Azure.

Off-topic but to join in the general good vibes this announcement emanates: i have to say that my experience using Azure cloud has been stellar. Their co-pilot integration works well, IME. Azure shell is simple and good. Dashboard UI is always good.

Bona fides: I have used GCP for 3 years, AWS for 3 years, and Azure for ~ 1 year. As well as the more "bare-metal" types of cloud providers like Linode/Akamai, and Vultr -- all the latter of which are great for self managing your infra.

I also really find the ability to spin up Windows Server and Windows 10/11 etc super useful for builds, testing, Hyper-V.

I really like Azure for huge projects with many moving parts.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#396

Post by officeplant »

toastercup wrote: post #247
troymc wrote: post #67

Fun fact: Second Life, the virtual world, has an in-world scripting language called LSL, and it gets compiled to bytecode that gets run on a virtual machine. Initially, it got compiled to bytecode that ran on an in-house virtual machine, but in 2008, they switched over to compiling LSL to Mono bytecode to run on the Mono virtual machine. I wonder if that's still how it works. (I haven't been involved with SL for a lo…

It does indeed still work that way! We even still support the old, in-house VM, known as LSO2: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSO We're hard at work adding Luau ( https://luau.org ) as a supported language for both in-world scripting as well as client/viewer-side scripting. As a handy byproduct of that, LSL will also gain the ability to be compiled to Luau bytecode, allowing us to eventually (someday, at least) she…

Always nice to see that SL is still going. I'll probably never remember my login to my old 2006 era account but the years of weird virtual world memories remain.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#397

Post by gwbas1c »

pdmccormick wrote: post #176

I'm genuinely curious, for someone who develops web application backends and larger distributed systems & infrastructure, predominantly using Go and Python, exclusively targeting Linux, is there anything in the .NET ecosystem that anyone would recommend I take a look at? Many thanks.

> for someone who develops web application backends and larger distributed systems

Blazor: It's Microsoft's way of doing in-browser C#. It can do quick-and-dirty server-side HTML, and professional-grade, in-browser WASM.

Why is this useful "for someone who develops web application backends"?

The nice thing about server-side Blazor is that you can make a management console, or otherwise port ops scripts, into a self-service page. Because you can choose to render on the server, you don't have to write an API, serialize your response, ect. You can do a SQL-ish query (with LINQ and Entity Framework) in the middle of HTML.

(Granted, for production-grade pages Blazor can run in the browser as WASM and use industrial-strength APIs.)

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#398

Post by Const-me »

mdasen wrote: post #160
kragen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i want to love dotnet-core, especially since godot switched from mono in godot 3 to dotnet-core in godot 4, but so far i haven't been able to currently debian has a mono package but no dotnet-core package. i'm not sure why this is; usually when debian lacks a popular nominally open-source package like this, it's either because it fails to build from source, or because it has some kind of tricky licensing pitfall that…

You can add add Microsoft's repo to install it on Debian: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux-... . Does Debian require packages to work on all of its architectures? If so, that could be the issue. .NET Core only supports x86, x64, and Arm64 (I think Arm32 has been discontinued and RISC-V is experimental at this point). It's possible that they object to .NET Core having certain license restric…

> Arm32 has been discontinued

.NET 9.0 preview still includes ARMv7 builds for Linux: one based on glibc library, another one for Alpine.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#399

Post by dr-detroit »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #349
lolinder wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, this helps a lot! So .NET Core is now out of date, and any version of .NET >= 5 is cross-platform and has no Core variant?

More or less. any version of .NET >= 5 is cross-platform and is a direct descendant of the "Core" side of the fork, and so has no "full framework, windows only" variant. It is "Core" in a lineage sense, but there's no need to make that distinction any more. The term "Core" is out of date, because the experimental "Core" fork succeeded, and became the mainstream.

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