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Notes on Tajikistan

mattlakeman.org

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Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#391

Post by protomolecule »

dang wrote: post #389
protomolecule wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here is another one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40756960

Ok, but when you respond simply by reporting more of your enemies without doing anything to indicate that you've processed my reply or that you care about the intended spirit of the site, I find that a bit demoralizing. I'm sure you can understand that it gets distasteful after a while when people keep pointing the mods at their political opponents. That's not in the intended spirit of the site as a whole. Also, the…

>I find that a bit demoralizing

Oh, I apologize for that -- I see your point and haven't replied because I have no objections)

> I'm sure you can understand that it gets distasteful after a while when people keep pointing the mods at their political opponents. That's not in the intended spirit of the site as a whole.

First you say that accounts like that get a free pass only because you missed them, now when I've made sure you haven't missed them -- it's distasteful? I see where you are coming from, but I find fairness to be important.

>If you want to be sure that we take a look at something

No, not really. Normally I'm for freedom of speech but sometimes I want to make a point.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#392

Post by pasabagi »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #291
coldtea wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the same mentality that contributes to these countries remaining poor. Just kick out the “WASPs”…so that the local kleptocrats take over. The "local kleptocrats" are usually just lackeys of those WASPs, put in place, supported financially and diplomatically, with arms and so on (and by pressuring their opponents) to ensure the stealing continues. On their own, they're small time crooks, the real bulk of the…

Zimbabwe kicked out all the WASPs. Where did they end up? A failed state. The issue is not WASPs, it’s bad governance. But I guess life is easy when one can just blame WASPs rather than examine themselves to find fault. We Africans have autonomy but refuse to use it for good. It’s condescending to assume we have no role in our problems and, to follow the logic, no role in the solutions.

Isn't it a bit a matter of culture, though? Colonial administrations are built to extract wealth from a country. So, when you get independence, that's still what the government, hell, even the infrastructure, is built for. Half the rail lines go straight to a port, all the bureaucrats know is how to squeeze people. So you end up with 'bad governance', even decades later, because that's the culture of governance that gets passed on, generation to generation.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#393

Post by hackum »

Yeah, as someone who grew up in Tajikistan myself - can confirm most of the observations (like 99% is very accurate). I never noticed any special love for Americans tbh, probably the dude just didn't know anything about European countries your friends were from. Mostly people love any tourists (for different reasons, but never sincerely :) )

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#394

Post by blackhawkC17 »

pasabagi wrote: post #392
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zimbabwe kicked out all the WASPs. Where did they end up? A failed state. The issue is not WASPs, it’s bad governance. But I guess life is easy when one can just blame WASPs rather than examine themselves to find fault. We Africans have autonomy but refuse to use it for good. It’s condescending to assume we have no role in our problems and, to follow the logic, no role in the solutions.

Isn't it a bit a matter of culture, though? Colonial administrations are built to extract wealth from a country. So, when you get independence, that's still what the government, hell, even the infrastructure, is built for. Half the rail lines go straight to a port, all the bureaucrats know is how to squeeze people. So you end up with 'bad governance', even decades later, because that's the culture of governance that…

Many previously colonized countries have become very successful, e.g., Singapore, Canada, Ireland, Bahrain, Cyprus, etc. Heck, even the USA was a colony, so previous colonialism is no excuse for not building a thriving country.

Good governance can be learned and implemented within a short while. We Africans just refuse to.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#395

Post by racional »

dang wrote: post #382
racional wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the detailed response, and will give it careful consideration. I was hoping you could also respond to the question at the very top ("Can you point to even a single instance ...", up to the "If not, then why ..." part). I'm not trying to split hairs here -- I'm really genuinely mystified by the apparent insinuation that I was responding to. That is, I don't see why would you bother to inject the phrase "W…

I did respond to that question, right at the start; but I must not have been clear enough, so I'll try again. You asked for an example of where you had talked about someone's country scornfully, snarkily, or aggressively. My answer is that you did it in the very comment I was replying to, when you wrote: > No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be. I know you didn't express it that wa…

Thanks for clarifying -- but the referent of the implicit "they" in that snippet (via "their droppings") was an (abstract) commenter -- not their country or nationality!

Which is also something you'd also prefer we not do (that is: referring to individuals with implied scorn) -- and since you're asking nicely and it's your shop here, I will make assiduous efforts to catch myself before doing so, moving forward.

So perhaps what I should have said was something like this:

   There's never a need to introduce (gratuitous) references to a commenter's nationality or other presumed essential traits... No matter how much we may object to the message or import of what they have written.
Which I would hope is a general policy we can all get behind on.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#396

Post by pasabagi »

blackhawkC17 wrote: post #394
pasabagi wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a bit a matter of culture, though? Colonial administrations are built to extract wealth from a country. So, when you get independence, that's still what the government, hell, even the infrastructure, is built for. Half the rail lines go straight to a port, all the bureaucrats know is how to squeeze people. So you end up with 'bad governance', even decades later, because that's the culture of governance that…

Many previously colonized countries have become very successful, e.g., Singapore, Canada, Ireland, Bahrain, Cyprus, etc. Heck, even the USA was a colony, so previous colonialism is no excuse for not building a thriving country. Good governance can be learned and implemented within a short while. We Africans just refuse to.

I think the only country you've mentioned that's a) not a city state and b) run by the colonized people, not the colonizers, is Ireland. If you look around the world, there's a pretty strong correlation between length of colonial subjugation, and the misfortunes of the people who were colonized today. I mean, in the USA, it was a colony for a long time, and there are hardly any Native Americans left, and those that survived live in the worst parts of the country, generally in poverty. The same is basically true of Canada, or Australia.

Countries like Japan, never colonized, or China, only briefly and partially colonized, seem to recover way faster. I also don't think it's specifically an African thing: look at the Phillipines, or Pakistan, or large parts of the ME.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#397

Post by dang »

racional wrote: post #395
dang wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did respond to that question, right at the start; but I must not have been clear enough, so I'll try again. You asked for an example of where you had talked about someone's country scornfully, snarkily, or aggressively. My answer is that you did it in the very comment I was replying to, when you wrote: > No matter how self-evidently full of excrement their droppings here may be. I know you didn't express it that wa…

Thanks for clarifying -- but the referent of the implicit "they" in that snippet (via "their droppings") was an (abstract) commenter -- not their country or nationality! Which is also something you'd also prefer we not do (that is: referring to individuals with implied scorn) -- and since you're asking nicely and it's your shop here, I will make assiduous efforts to catch myself before doing so, moving forward. So pe…

Yes that would be much better!

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#398

Post by blackhawkC17 »

pasabagi wrote: post #396
blackhawkC17 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many previously colonized countries have become very successful, e.g., Singapore, Canada, Ireland, Bahrain, Cyprus, etc. Heck, even the USA was a colony, so previous colonialism is no excuse for not building a thriving country. Good governance can be learned and implemented within a short while. We Africans just refuse to.

I think the only country you've mentioned that's a) not a city state and b) run by the colonized people, not the colonizers, is Ireland. If you look around the world, there's a pretty strong correlation between length of colonial subjugation, and the misfortunes of the people who were colonized today. I mean, in the USA, it was a colony for a long time, and there are hardly any Native Americans left, and those that s…

Okay, we can keep making excuses. If we follow your logic, these countries (including mine) are destined to be mediocre and nothing can change it in the short term.

We should never push for change...it's the colonizer's fault always.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#399

Post by qingcharles »

hobs wrote: post #282
sandworm101 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't. Rich countries have base rules that all must follow. Justin Timberlake was just arrested for drunk driving. He might get off because he can afford the best lawyers, but he was arrested. That is a thing that happened. It would not have happened in somewhere like Tajikistan where a roadside bribe would nullify the entire situation. For the equivalent of a few hundred bucks they would have given him a…

Just make sure to be a cop and then you'll be fine.

I had a sheriff's officer I knew tell me he'd been stopped five times for drunk driving and each time he'd just pulled out his badge and they'd waved him along.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#400

Post by RecycledEle »

rdlw wrote: post #314
RecycledEle wrote: post #197

> all rolled into one beautiful, weird, dysfunctional country, and I couldn’t get enough of it. I do not see dysfunctional countries as beautiful. I prefer well functioning countries where things get done and people understand each other. I guess the author likes to see people suffer?

You can't see beauty in a country that isn't perfect? I know plenty of people who have some flaw they would probably be better off without, but I don't say "I don't see imperfect people as beautiful, and if you do it means you like to see them suffer." Why do you jump to calling the author sadistic for finding the positive in a complicated situation?

> You can't see beauty in a country that isn't perfect?

A country is beautiful if it serves its people. Seeing beauty in dysfunction is sadism.

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