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OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

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Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#391
post #353
post #163

That's not enforceable, right? I'm not a lawyer, but even I know no contract can strips you out of rights given by the constitution.

Non disparagement clauses are in so so many different employment contracts. It's pretty clear you're not a lawyer though.

It is also clear that you can read, since i wrote it.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#392

So part of their compensation for working is equity, and when they leave thay have to sign an additional agreement in order to keep their previously earned compensation? How is this legal? Mine as well tell them they have to give all their money back too. What's the consideration for this contract?

It's also really weird equity: you don't get an ownership stake in the company but rather profit-sharing units. If OpenAI ever becomes profitable (color me skeptical), you can indeed get rich as an employee. The other trigger is "achieving AGI", as defined by sama (presumably). And while you wait for these dubious events to occur you work insane hours for a mediocre cash salary.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#393
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't really contradict what the other poster said. They're calling for regulation (digging a moat) to ensure systems are "safe" and "aligned" while ignoring that humans are not aligned, so these systems obviously cannot be aligned with humans; they can only be aligned with their owners (i.e. them, not you).

Humans are not aligned with humans. This is the most concise takedown of that particular branch of nonsense that I’ve seen so far. Do we want woke AI, X brand fash-pilled AI, CCPBot, or Emirates Bot? The possibilities are endless.

> Humans are not aligned with humans.

Which is why creating a new type of intelligent entity that could be more powerful than humans is a very bad idea: we don't even know how to align the humans and we have a ton of experience with them

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be that they agree to it initially when hired, so it doesn't matter if they sign something when they leave.

Agreements with surprise terms that only get detailed later tend not to be very legal.

Doesn't even have to be a surprise. Pretty much startup employment agreement in existence gives the company ("at the board's sole discretion") the right to repurchase your shares upon termination of employment. OpenAI's PPUs are worth $0 until they become profitable. Guess which right they'll choose to exercise if you don't sign the NDA?

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#395
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had anything close to AGI, they’d just have it improve itself. Externally this would manifest as layoffs.

This really doesn't follow. True AGI would be general , but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's smarter than people; especially the kind of people who work as top researchers for OpenAI.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be superhuman if there’s any intelligence at all. It already is superhuman at memory and paying attention, image recognition, languages, etc. Add cognition to that and humans basically become pets. Trouble is nobody has a foggiest clue on how to add cognition to any of this.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#396

It probably would be better to switch the link from the X post to the Vox article [0]. From the article: “““ It turns out there’s a very clear reason for [why no one who had once worked at OpenAI was talking]. I have seen the extremely restrictive off-boarding agreement that contains nondisclosure and non-disparagement provisions former OpenAI employees are subject to. It forbids them, for the rest of their lives, fr…

When YCR HARC folded, Sam had everyone sign a non-disclosure anti disparagement NDA to keep their computer. I thought is was odd, and the only reason I can even say this is that I bought the iMac I was using before the option became available. Still, I had nothing bad to disclose, so it would have saved me some money.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#397

If the original agreement offered equity that vests, then suddenly another future agreement can potentially revoke that vested equity? It makes no sense unless somehow additional conditions were attached to the vested equity in the original agreement.

And almost all equity agreements do exactly that - give the company right of repurchase. If you've ever signed one, go re-read it. You'll likely see that clause right there in black and white.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#398
>the company will succeed at developing AI systems that make most human labor obsolete.

Hmmmn. Most of the humans where I work do things physically with their hands. I don't see what AI will achieve in their area.

Can AI paint the walls in my house, fix the boiler and swap out the rotten windows? If so I think a subscription to chat GPT is very reasonably priced!

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, an AI charity -- so founded on openness that they're called OpenAI -- took millions in donations, everyone's copyright data...only to become effectively for-profit, close down their AI, and inflict a lifetime gag on their employees. In that context, it feels rather amoral.

This to me is like the "don't be evil" thing. I didn't take it seriously to begin with, I don't think reasonable people should have taken it seriously, and so it's not persuasive or really all that interesting to argue about. People are different! You can think otherwise.

Therein lies the issue. The second you throw idealistic terms like “don’t be evil” and __OPEN__ ai around you should be expected to deliver.

But how is that even possible when corporations are typically run by ghouls who enjoy relativistic morals when it suits them. And are beholden to profits, not ethics.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#400

It's time to find a lawyer. I'm not one but there's an intersection with California SB 331, also known as “The Silenced No More Act”. while it is focused more on sexual harrasment, it's not limited to that, and these contracts may run afoul of that. https://silencednomore.org/the-silenced-no-more-act

No it’s either a violation of the NLRB rule against severance agreements conditioned on non-disparagement or it’s a violation of the common law rule requiring consideration for amendments to service contracts.

> NLRB rule against severance agreements conditioned on non-disparagement

Wait that's a thing? Can you give more detail about this/what to look into to learn more?

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