When do we stop finding new music? • Hacker News Board

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#391

Post by nullify88 » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 6:58 AM UTC

totetsu wrote: post #237

Thegn wrote: post #224

One problem I've run into with the music services is with older styles. For example, I'm specifically into black musicians from the 1930s-1950s who played swing style music. I have yet to find a service that actually will play more than 2-3 songs in that style before deciding that what I really want to hear is rat pack or swing by white musicians. No matter how much I thumbs down it, I get Glenn Miller/Frank Sinatra/…

Last FM and music neighbors could have solved this.

I haven't used last.fm for a long time and it seems like a shadow of its former self, pre acquisition. I've discovered so much music on there, and I'm getting really disappointed by spotifys repetitiveness. Is last.fm still good to discover new music or is it just harvesting scrobbles?

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#392

Post by ddingus » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:02 AM UTC

at_a_remove wrote: post #373

ddingus wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use a set of researched tracks by Arbitron and others seeking to maximize AD revenue by demographic. There is a TON of great classic rock to enjoy that never sees airplay and the reason is the researched tunes have "known" demographics that can be sold.

I have started a little research project wherein I have been harvesting the feeds of various Internet-active radio stations so I can look for the "deep cuts." Not just for classic rock, but for various "new wave" stations, as well as combining old "top 500" lists, and so on. I am nowhere near done, but I have made some notes that confirm old suspicions. One, you're quite right about classic rock having a lot of deep…

Indeed! Your comment resonates with my own thought and experiences.

In another comment, I said it helps to be around others seeking new tunes. It helps a lot! Their bias into our system can bend things back into a fairly normal curve. It is like rolling back the clock on our music age.

Right now, I am living that with people at their music seeking peak. Super fun and very invigorating.

Recommended.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#393

Post by goosejuice » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:07 AM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #168

I find it interesting that GenZ and Millennials show a much smaller preference for their own decade's music. https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_pr... The 1980s are still doing quite well among all but the oldest generation. Is it possible that music may actually be getting worse? Corporatized, consolidated, computerized. Look at Hollywood now too: everything is a sequel, prequel, remake, reboot…

Music is absolutely not getting worse unless you're only considering top charting music which is such a small fraction of what's out there. Even then it's highly subjective and behind almost every one of those songs or albums is a handful of brilliant writers, producers and session musicians you probably never heard of.

I'd say it's never been better. Music is more accessible which means more folks get exposed to it earlier and in more variety and in turn we get more musicians.

It's only going to get better.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#394

Post by at_a_remove » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:09 AM UTC

amatecha wrote: post #387

at_a_remove wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have started a little research project wherein I have been harvesting the feeds of various Internet-active radio stations so I can look for the "deep cuts." Not just for classic rock, but for various "new wave" stations, as well as combining old "top 500" lists, and so on. I am nowhere near done, but I have made some notes that confirm old suspicions. One, you're quite right about classic rock having a lot of deep…

Aww hell yeah, dark jazz is great. I assume you know Bohren & der Club of Gore and Kilimanjaro Darkjazz Ensemble? (curious of any recommendations if you know more good stuff!)

I am working on one of my Master Lists, but the /r/darkjazz subreddit was good. Now, it is mostly dead but for spam from randos who aren't within miles of the sound trying to flog their own efforts. Black Chamber, Free Nelson Mandoomjazz, you might try those for giggles.

I had expected that some of Badalamenti's stuff would have opened up since his death, like his score for Witch Hunt, but no luck. His stuff was sort of a wellspring, among others, which intermingled into that little creek we called darkjazz, for a while.

I originally got into it as a primary component of a long set of mixes for a particular mood, namely that I would have instrumentals (primarily darkjazz) buffering slow tempo "torchy" kinds of songs (Mel Torme, Julie London, Nat King Cole, Billie Holiday) and the "once every ninety minutes" track which was a little newer. The idea being that the darkjazz doesn't call too much attention to itself and keeps the mood going.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#395

Post by npteljes » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:19 AM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #168

I find it interesting that GenZ and Millennials show a much smaller preference for their own decade's music. https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_pr... The 1980s are still doing quite well among all but the oldest generation. Is it possible that music may actually be getting worse? Corporatized, consolidated, computerized. Look at Hollywood now too: everything is a sequel, prequel, remake, reboot…

The return of the 80s is, or rather was, just a current trend. Next up will be the 90s/00s, which can already be seen in make up and fashion, and I'm sure media will follow soon as well.

Wrt/ Hollywood: I think they are not the monopoly they used to be, because the powers are shifting by streaming, and short video services. Similar to how AAA games are more stagnant than the indie gaming scene.

"Music" is too broad to "get worse". There are trends in music that can be considered bad, such as the lessening dynamic range of the recordings - the Loudness War[0]. But there is more music than ever, computerized or not, so if you find that some source of music is bad, you just need to look elsewhere. Music production is easier than ever, so even very niche sounds are kept alive, like the lofi sound of post-punk decades ago[1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

[1] https://desmonddoom.bandcamp.com/album/doom-and-bloom

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#396

Post by eloisius » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:21 AM UTC

cesaref wrote: post #389

The useful metric with these sorts of things is to ask yourself, when was the last time you tried something that you didn't like? For expensive experiences, say, going to the theatre, it's hard to see shows you don't think you are going to like, as the price pressure makes you choose 'safe bets' as the cost/reward is somewhat weighted in one direction. For something like music, the above used to be the case, as typic…

> We really need music search which follows more interesting routes through content rather than just 'people who like this also like' or 'here's another album by someone you already listen to'.

I agree with this so much. We've had about a decade of this kind of robo-curation in every single aspect of our media consumption. Read books like the ones you like, listen to bands like the ones you listen to, more videos like this one, etc. I'm so sick of it.

The way to branch out of your rut is other people. Some band I'd never have listened to, and if I accidentally had, would have skipped it 30 seconds in, have become my favorites simply because someone I had a connection with played it or recommended it. Movies I wouldn't have picked, but watched with someone else, are often better than anything I'd have picked based on my past preferences.

These days, more and more, I am realizing how rewarding it is to read a book or try a new restaurant based on nothing except that a friend with completely different taste likes it. If it turns out to be a dud, it's worth it for when I find something completely new that I do like.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#397

Post by Kiro » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:24 AM UTC

qzx_pierri wrote: post #137

Kiro wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is because labels pay Spotify to put certain songs on large playlists Source? This is what Spotify says about it themselves: "We want to make something crystal clear: no one can pay to be added to one of Spotify’s editorial playlists." https://community.spotify.com/t5/FAQs/How-to-get-your-music-... Sure, they could be lying but then all the labels and their employees would need to be in on the lie as well.

This is the same defense used in radio. Note the wording ... "no one can pay". Favors and indirect payment are used excessively in the music industry. Note that I also said that payola was the act of "direct payment". An example of indirect payment in radio would be the record label gifting a set of expensive tickets to the station. Remember those contests in the 2000s where the radio station would play a collection…

So in other words: you're just speculating and have no basis for the claim.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#398

Post by webworker » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:29 AM UTC

jethro_tell wrote: post #372

webworker wrote: post #370

I discussed this with a friend pretty recently. I wondered whether I was getting "older" because I couldn't find anything I liked about the current rappy-pop or soft, high-pitched chic-pop that you hear over loudspeakers at the grocery store, gym, etc. It's grating to listen to, majority of the stuff I can't even determine what the melody is supposed to be. Then I realized that I'm listening to new alt/indie stuff th…

And at the same time, publishing music has never been easier. There is so much good stuff out there but you aren't going to find it if your process for finding new music is letting the same guys that made top 40 with payola jam their same lowest common denominator shit down your through with algorithmically generated playlists.

Interesting thing I found the other day:

> In 2006 Slichter said that payola was how his band Semisonic turned their song "Closing Time" into a hit. Slichter stated: "It cost something close to $700,000 to $800,000 to get 'Closing Time' on the air."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Slichter

Damn near a mil to push that song up the charts, in the 1990s, and it wasn't even a crap song. I think of that track as iconic of the late-90s, I was surprised they had to run payola at all.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#399

Post by npteljes » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:29 AM UTC

js2 wrote: post #339

lapcat wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder who's producing those movies though. My comment did specify Hollywood. The indie film scene, most of which consists of original screenplays, is very active, and now it's easier than ever both to shoot a film—on a smartphone!—and to distribute a film—over the internet. (Likewise, it's easier than ever to record and distribute a music album.) However, those films aren't getting mass marketed, getting seen by t…

Here's an older post (2015) by the same guy about Hollywood films: https://stephenfollows.com/how-original-are-hollywood-movies... > 39% of top movies released 2005-14 were truly original, i.e. not an adaptation, sequel, spin-off, remake, or other such derivative work. I don't know, I watch most of my movies at home (I have a nice setup) and watch as many old movies as new. I never feel like I have any trouble findin…

That is indeed right. People confuse their own perception of their surroundings with actual changes in the world. We're human beings, with a rich inner world, which always evolves as we age and there is a lot going on in there, both on a chemical / biological level, and spiritually. We are not really built to be objective observers.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#400

Post by inbetween » Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 7:31 AM UTC

graeme wrote: post #365

For anyone who wants a good source of random music, radio Canada has a great French station with an excellent show “l’effet pogonat”. You won’t understand the host if you don’t speak French but the station is mostly songs and I’ve found so many good ones there. The Montreal Gazette had a good write up: https://montrealgazette.com/news/pop-goes-the-world-ici-musi...

This is fantastic, thank you so much. It reminds me of the Bernard Lenoir show on France Inter back in the days. Will be spending days digging this new treasure trove from Montreal :)