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Why is it so hard to build an airport?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#391

Post by ttymck »

newhotelowner wrote: post #255
perlgeek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport…

I don't think you ever traveled international or your plane got delayed or cancelled. I don't want to carry 4 big bags in the train when I travel international I don't want to travel 30 miles if my plane get cancelled.

Then you would fly via SEA?

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#392

Post by ghaff »

_delirium wrote: post #339
bombcar wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a key if you want a "rail to plane" setup - if you do it right (read-nobody will do it) you check in for the train with your baggage and your flight at the same time, and give the bags over to a dedicated baggage car that handles everything for you.

Hong Kong recently added this, called In-town Check-in [1]. You can check in and drop your bags at the MTR Hong Kong station when taking the Airport Express. Can even drop off the bags up to a day in advance. Currently only open to Cathay Pacific customers though. [1] https://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/services/complom_checkin....

Yeah, any airline could set something like this up. Cathay has always had pretty primo service though.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#393

Post by Symbiote »

Jensson wrote: post #333
mayormcmatt wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arlanda is my favorite major-city airport. I'm not as well-traveled as many, but I've been to dozens and it's my favorite. I've transited between Stockholm, Norrtalje, and the airport in bus, tax, and train, with each being the easiest experience I've had with that respective form of transit.

Zurich Airport was much better for me, a few minutes to Zurich by train and they go every few minutes and tickets are cheap since those are the commuter trains. No need to plan, just go to the train station and hop on the first train and you are there in less than 10 minutes. It really blew my mind when I first visited, I never thought getting to a major international airport could be that convenient. Swiss transit i…

Copenhagen is as good if not better than both, at least accounting for the population being double that of Zurich.

Metro and commuter trains run all day and all night (the trains also go to Malmø in Sweden).

Long distance trains go all the way across Denmark and as far as Gothenburg in Sweden, although there are very few been midnight at 4am.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#394

Post by LadyCailin »

holmesworcester wrote: post #387
loteck wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn't be down voted, this type of arbitrage is common and the parties engaging in it know the baked in risks. It is no different from the common gambit of buying land outside of cities zoned as industrial or agricultural and then waging politics to have it rezoned as residential to dramatically increase its value.

The cool solution I've seen to this problem is to have some process for identifying the class of people who are affected by [locally burdensome thing] and then allowing the proponents (a business, the government, etc.) to negotiate some settlement with that affected class directly, with a majority vote used to accept the settlement. For example, everyone near the airport could get some property tax relief or share of…

This is absolutely how it should work. Negative externalities should be paid for by the source of them. It can be difficult of course to find where that price lies, but this is what all those lawsuits were about. It’s a shame they didn’t just bake that cost in from the beginning, instead of failing to take responsibility and then having to be forced to do so.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#395

Post by TylerE »

brewdad wrote: post #344
TylerE wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of doing it this way is that the secure perimeter would extended all the way to the central station. That's the whole idea. Essentially, this urban hub is "the airport" in terms of traveling to it. Think of the actual hub -> board gates/runway connections as like a really long people mover, not just extending a subway line and drawing a new dot. Trains could travel on a totally grade separated route with st…

The trouble with this plan is that downtown land is more expensive than rural land. The land area you need to efficiently build the check-in facilities will be similar whether you put it on site or away from the airport. So you'd spend more for the off-site and then still have to build a people mover that provides zero benefit to anyone not going to and from the airport. It makes far more sense to build the airport f…

In an urban environment you can build UP. Airports avoid structure over 40 or 50ft to avoid interfering with the controllers visibility.

Instead of having one giant check in hall you could have one floor per airline, for instance.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#396

Post by monknomo »

Symbiote wrote: post #367
monknomo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived near a freight railway, and I assure you they are not quiet

I lived near several 80%-passenger railways in England, and they are not silent but they are quieter and less annoying than roads. Most of the trains were electric, including the freight trains.

US experience is different, with big diesels and primarily freight. I'd rate them as similarly annoying to a divided highway, but I suppose it depends on the region and the specifics

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#397

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

balderdash wrote: post #358

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

Portland, OR has a similar problem with the raceway.

People buy houses near Portland International Raceway and then complain about the noise of race cars. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#398

Post by ghaff »

bombcar wrote: post #306
ghaff wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least large parts of Boston are within 5 miles of Logan Airport. But I can say from personal experience that there are specific locations that are stop-conversation levels of aircraft noise which is not true of the city as a whole.

That's the real difference, you really have to be in an area for awhile to get a feel for it. https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/60wejw/noise_pollu... is San Diego, and you can clearly see the airport and even the flight path for landing planes - but which parts are actually affected and which are nearly unnoticeable requires boots on the ground. And also, landing planes are quieter than ones taking off, and s…

There's a nice marsh I've sea kayaked to from Winthrop which is a community in greater Boston right across from Logan airport. (You could have easily landed your boat there at the end of the runway--presumably if you didn't mind serious people with automatic weapons paying you a quick visit.) I remember being there once with a friend and we got to talking with a local for some reason. HE TALKED REALLY LOUDLY. You understood why when a jet took off over the parking lot every few minutes.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#399

Post by acdha »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #293
acdha wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in San Diego, I worked near the military airport now known as MCAS Miramar. My coworkers and I were honestly stunned by the people who sued after moving in nearby claiming that they had no idea the place they filmed Top Gun would be that noisy.

A better idea: Tear down the old MCAS Miramar and build housing and parks. Rebuild the airbase in Nevada or the California desert. Yes, it was bad planning to allow so many residences to be built near an airbase, but too late to undo it now.

You’re welcome to lobby your congress members for that but until the military says they’re moving it’s a mistake to buy a house there if you can’t live with the noise.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#400

Post by Espressosaurus »

pbsladek wrote: post #113
po wrote: post #30

If you fly into Tokyo you might come in via Narita Airport (NRT) which is actually quite a distance out from tokyo. Violence is extremely uncommon in modern Japan but NRT was the site of violent resistance over several decades. Opposition forces killed several police officers, rioted on several occasions and constructed a giant 200 ft tower to interfere with test flights. Hundreds of acts of vandalism have occurred o…

If flying into NRT and on the way to Tokyo, ~$200ish for the taxi ride. Ooops.

You use an airport bus or a train to get to and from Narita.

You'd be an idiot to use a taxi.

Or it's some exceptional situation (flight super delayed?)

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