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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#391
post #367

I live in an old furniture factory converted into lofts. LEED certified of course, with mini splits instead of forced air in each unit. This is in the midwest. For the past 11 years, every season it's failed to maintain minimum temperature of 68 degrees when it hits below 5 degrees outside, or maintain cooling in the summer. Another adjacent building built 2 years after this one with the exact same setup, same story.…

What are "mini splits "?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#392
post #367

I live in an old furniture factory converted into lofts. LEED certified of course, with mini splits instead of forced air in each unit. This is in the midwest. For the past 11 years, every season it's failed to maintain minimum temperature of 68 degrees when it hits below 5 degrees outside, or maintain cooling in the summer. Another adjacent building built 2 years after this one with the exact same setup, same story.…

Emergency heat was under-installed. In the midwest, you have to have it, and it will suck down a ton of electricity for the handful of days a year you need it. Being entirely reliant on mini-splits without resistive emergency heating is a very strange choice, and it's not what heat pump advocates are recommending. The idea behind heat pumps is to eliminate the need for the natural gas distribution infrastructure. As…

Aren't space heaters and emergency heat essentially the same thing? It seems strange for the city to ban space heaters when they really ought not to be worse than any other resistive heater

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#393
post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Also, doesn't states like MA import a not-insignificant amount of natural gas from elsewhere to convert to electricity? Would like to hear about what's more efficient: direct natural gas heating vs natural gas -> electricity -> heat pump...

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all kinds of complications - commercial solar isn't dispatchable so it does tend to get lower rates than most other sources. In my jurisdiction residential (net metering) customers are only allowed to install a certain numbers of panels - corresponding with household energy consumption and assumed production levels (i.e. your monthly bill will never be negative - at lowest you'll be paying distribution char…

> Paying them nothing would be even more unfair (and that's the only option available where I am at least - net metering or no household generation) I wasn't suggesting this. The phased rollback of net metering in California (the state mentioned in my original parent comment as "attacking" solar installation) means that solar owners will still get paid, just not as much as before. I'm sorry that you live somewhere th…

> phased rollback of net metering in California

Thank you for this clarification - I thought the discussion about changes to net metering was general, not California specific. Reading [1] about the changes to net metering in California, it seems reasonable, especially as it has high solar penetration. Hopefully it will (like many things) lead the way so that load shifting becomes simpler/more economical throughout North America.

[1] https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/18/decoding-the-changes-to...

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use solar, but using heat pumps and an electric car uses maybe 3x more electricity than my roof can produce.

Higher efficiency panels + vertical panels would help. Most houses have decent south-facing walls. Ground mount is also an option in many places.

Live underground and convert your whole yard to arrays of panels!

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#396

I have mixed feelings about our heat pump system. Yes, it's efficient. But it breaks about once every other year. Last winter the compressor circuit board malfunctioned and cost $5k to fix. Two years ago it was another issue entirely. All of our savings have been lost to service calls. I'm not super price sensitive, but it's still a pain when the heat goes out in the middle of winter and all the service techs are boo…

> Last winter the compressor circuit board malfunctioned and cost $5k to fix.

Ok, so it sounds like you got scammed. HVAC circuit boards cost $100.

> Two years ago it was another issue entirely.

Which was?

> All of our savings have been lost to service calls. I'm not super price sensitive

Yeah, obviously, if you're willing to spend $5k on a service call.

> If we ever have to replace it, we're going to have to rip open half of the house to remove the heating lines.

Heat Pump units can just go in place of a regular AC unit. They can use existing ductwork and coolant lines. Not sure why you ran heating lines everywhere? Do you have a mini-split unit per room or something?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#397
post #367

I live in an old furniture factory converted into lofts. LEED certified of course, with mini splits instead of forced air in each unit. This is in the midwest. For the past 11 years, every season it's failed to maintain minimum temperature of 68 degrees when it hits below 5 degrees outside, or maintain cooling in the summer. Another adjacent building built 2 years after this one with the exact same setup, same story.…

Emergency heat was under-installed. In the midwest, you have to have it, and it will suck down a ton of electricity for the handful of days a year you need it. Being entirely reliant on mini-splits without resistive emergency heating is a very strange choice, and it's not what heat pump advocates are recommending. The idea behind heat pumps is to eliminate the need for the natural gas distribution infrastructure. As…

> it's not what heat pump advocates are recommending.

sure seems like someone is. could it possibly be the heat pump salesmen? the idea behind heat pumps is to sell heat pumps.

In the event you're cold, maybe you should get a furnace too. But that wasn't part of the sales pitch. Regardless, there are now two appliances you have to maintain. Tell me again how much money this saves?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#398
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has been proposed. Well the proposal was to run a small engine powering a generator, then you cool the engine to heat the house, while the electric is sold (or otherwise powers the house). However modern gas furnaces are > 90% efficient and it is hard to get an engine that efficient for heat (remember the engine will be running indoors so it needs to not fill the house with noise of CO). I think no matter how yo…

> I think no matter how you look at it, you can't make this system more efficient than just using the furnace to generate heat without the engine. I don't think that's right: look at micro-CHP (Combined Heat and Power) systems: they run an engine to generate electricity, and then capture the heat for heating. I don't think you can get them for residential in the US though.

Honda sold one for the US, but it didn't catch on or something:

Well I found this, they used the heat for hot water:

https://global.honda/en/newsroom/news/2012/p120925eng.html

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#399
post #367

I live in an old furniture factory converted into lofts. LEED certified of course, with mini splits instead of forced air in each unit. This is in the midwest. For the past 11 years, every season it's failed to maintain minimum temperature of 68 degrees when it hits below 5 degrees outside, or maintain cooling in the summer. Another adjacent building built 2 years after this one with the exact same setup, same story.…

Sounds like some pretty poor planning. Modern heat pumps including the ones that I'm familiar with work down to around -5F. They aren't very efficient obviously at that low temp but mine also has a resistive backup that fires up if needed.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop the attacks on solar installation I've not heard of any attacks, just reductions in subsidies (tax credits, net metering). Can you share what you're referring to?

I'm not the OP, but probably https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2024/01/30/arizona-proposes-sola...

OP was complaining about CA, and this appears to be an proposed law in AZ. It could affect CA utility prices because it relates to export, but it's not up to CA to decide what laws are passed in another state, governing the usage of land in that state.
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