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Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

nightshade.cs.uchicago.edu

391–400 of 710 posts

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also degrades the quality of the image for human consumers. It’s just a matter of what someone is willing to publish to “the public.”

Sure. Just like how video game drm impacts performance and watermarks on images degrades the image. Drm walks a tight line that inevitably makes the result worse than a drum-free solution, but also should not make the item completely unconsumable.

Video game DRM completely prevents people without a license/key to unlock it from accessing the game at all.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#392
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has no bearing at all on the issue at hand. The same can be said of the original argument that started this thread.

You think scalability isn't relevant to the difference between a person doing something by hand or with software operating on the entire internet?

Yeah, that's the oddest part of many of the pro-AI arguments. They want to anthromopotize the idea of learning but also clearly understand that the scalability of a bot exceeds that of a human.

They also don't seem to have much experience in the artist world. An artist usually can't reproduce a picture from memory, and if they can they are subject to copyright infringement depending on what and how they depict it, even if the image isn't a complete copy. By this logic of "bots are humans" a bot should be subject if they make a Not-legally-disctinct-enough talking mouse

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflated is not an apt descriptor of artist wages, those are known to be low.

And horse wages (some oats) were low when the car was invented. Yet they were still inflated. There used to be more horses than humans in this country. Couldn't even earn their keep when the Ford Model T came along.

You're comparing human artists to horses? Seriously?

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Just like how video game drm impacts performance and watermarks on images degrades the image. Drm walks a tight line that inevitably makes the result worse than a drum-free solution, but also should not make the item completely unconsumable.

Video game DRM completely prevents people without a license/key to unlock it from accessing the game at all.

So, do you want to define drm by intent or technical implementation? I'm doing the former, but it sounds like you want to do the latter. Also keep in mind that legalese doesn't necessarily care about the exact encryption technique to be deployed either.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, but I already look down on artists who refuse to integrate generative AI into their processes.

People who use generative AI in their processes are not artists.

And people who use Photoshop are?

There is somewhat famous digital artist from Russia - Alexey Andreev. Google it, he has very distinctive style of realistic technique and surrealistic situations, like landing big manta ray on the deck of aircraft carrier. Or you can see his old works in his 5-years-not-updates LJ [1].

Now he uses generative AI as one of his tools. As Photoshop, as different (unrealistic!) brushes in Photoshop, as other digital tools. His style is still 100% recognizable and his works don't become worse or more "generic". Is he still artist? I think so.

Where will you draw the line?

[1] - https://alexandreev.livejournal.com/

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who use generative AI in their processes are not artists.

This is true. They are just taking a sample from a generated latent space, just like taking a photo of something doesn't make you an artist.

So, there is no artists in, for example, street photography? Picture must be altered to become art, or staged?

Was it irony? :)

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marginally, yeah, since you're not supporting the development of more capable labor-saving devices in this category. I'm still not a fan, though.

How is empowering others to create not a moral good?

It is! This method of doing so has overwhelming negative externalities, though. I'd expect anyone who actually gave a shit about AI empowering people to create to spend just as much effort pushing legislation so the displaced artists don't starve on the street as a result.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Others aren't obligated do as you say just because you say it. Yeah, that's exactly why you'd get sued for copyright theft. > you must think my copying your style constitutes copyright infringement Autocorrect screwed that wording up. I've fixed it.

I'm not sure what you've changed, but I'll reiterate: my copying your style is not fair use. Fair use applies to copyrighted things. A style cannot be copyrighted, so if you tried to sue me for infringing upon the copyright of your artistic style, your case would be dismissed. It would be as invalid as you trying to sue me for distributing illegal copies of someone else's painting. Legally you have as much ownership…

Now, I just think you are arguing in bad faith. What I meant to say was clear, but I said "technique" instead. Then, instead of debating what I meant to say (you know, the actual point of the conversation), you took my words verbatim.

I'm not sure where you are going with this ... but for what it's worth, techniques can be copyrighted ... even patented, or protected via trade secrets. I never said what the techniques were, and I'm not sure what you are going on about.

I'll repeat this as well: "Fair use" DOES NOT EXIST unless you are getting sued. It's a legal defense when you are accused of stealing someone else's work, and there is proof you stole it. Even then, it isn't something you DO; it's something a court says YOU DID. Any time you use something with "fair use" in mind, it is the equivalent of saying, "I'm going to steal this, and hopefully, a court agrees that this is fair use."

If you steal any copyrighted material, even when it is very clearly NOT fair use (such as in most AI's case), you would be a blubbering idiot NOT to claim fair use in the hopes that someone will agree. There is a crap load of case law showing "research for commercial purposes is not fair use," ... and guess who is selling access to the AI? If it's actual research, it is "free" for humanity to use (or at least as inexpensive as possible) and not for profit. Sure, some of the companies might be non-profits doing research and 'giving it away,' and those are probably using things fairly ... then there are other companies very clearly doing it for a profit (like a big software company going through code they host).

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you go and study a work of fiction in a college class, unless that material is in the public domain, you're gonna have to pay for your copy, No you wont! It is only someone who distributes copies who can get in trouble. If instead of that you as an individual decide to study a piece of art or fiction, and you do no distribute copies of it to anyone, this is completely legal and you don't have to pay anyone for i…

Making a profit off variations of someone's work isn't covered under fair use.

That's not a fair statement to make. It can influence a judge's decision on whether something is fair use, but it can still be fair use even if you profit from it.

Re: Nightshade: An offensive tool for artists against AI art generators

#400
post #204
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A human artist cannot look at and memorize 100000 pictures in a day, and cannot paint 100000 pictures in a day. I am SO tired of this non-argument

A human artist does not need to look at and memorize 100000 pictures in any span of time, period. Current AI does. We needed huge amounts of human labor to fund and build Versailles. I'm sure many died as a result. Now we have machines that save many of those lives and labor. What's your non-argument?

>What's your non-argument?

That perhaps we shoildnt compare modern capitalistic societies to 18th century European royalty? I sure don't sympathize with the justification of the ability to use less labor to feed the rich.

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