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The case for single-stair multifamily

thesisdriven.com

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Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#391
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concrete is probably not a great thing in much of the US for lower-rise buildings. Definitely not here in Oregon. And the fire suppression stuff is mandatory in multifamily housing anyway.

Why is concrete bad in Oregon? Autoclaved, aerated concrete is common in Germany which has a slightly harsher version of our Oregon climate.

It outputs a lot of CO2, and there are a lot of trees to construct low-rise apartments with.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a hypothetical for a two-stairwell building: two couches. We can avoid this dangerous scenario with a three-stairwell minimum requirement.

Good point. Why do we even bother with two-lane roads and a double yellow line? Such a waste of space. Very contrived to presume there is always a car coming the other way

Sorry, but the only thing that will change my mind is a significantly casualty different between single stairwell and dual-stairwell buildings accounting for building age, construction type, property value, and occupant demographics.

Happy to hear evidence-based arguments.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#393

This is a fantastic article. Burdensome regulations on housing construction have caused costs to skyrocket. Minimum lot sizes, setback requirements, square footage minimums, floor-area ratio restrictions, overzealous height restrictions, parking requirements, abuse of environmental reviews, historic designations, community reviews, overzealous MFH requirements (like double-stair), below-market mandates, all have work…

How is double stair MFH overzealous? I can’t control if my neighbor blocks the stairwell with a couch that gets stuck while he’s moving in and now I have no egress if my other neighbor starts a fire. I’m in favor of greater freedoms, and the freedom to choose a single stair MFH if I want. But I don’t want.

The couch goes in the elevator, not the stairwell.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is double stair MFH overzealous? I can’t control if my neighbor blocks the stairwell with a couch that gets stuck while he’s moving in and now I have no egress if my other neighbor starts a fire. I’m in favor of greater freedoms, and the freedom to choose a single stair MFH if I want. But I don’t want.

A couch and a fire and that couch can't be pushed over or jumped over... That's quite a contrived scenario. I suspect that most of the improvements in the fire safety record of apartment buildings have to do with other factors like materials used, fireproof stair doors, etc etc. The reason I think the two stairs don't do much is that first world countries exist outside North America, they don't have this rule, and th…

> A couch and a fire and that couch can't be pushed over or jumped over...

You’re 85.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument doesn't really make sense because the problem isn't lack of houses or apartments, there's plenty of places to put everyone. The problem is one of affordability. The costs of stuff that already exists and has existed for ages isn't really tied to the current cost to build, even if we buy the specious argument that all regulation raises costs and those costs are inevitably passed directly to tenants.

supply and eemand sets rents. You you rent perfecly good existing houses cheap in rural areas. Nobody wants to like there. There is no reason to think there is enourh room for everyone who wants to like in San Francisco, and statistics prove they heve not been building much. Mean while in other states we find areas of demand where housing is not expensive. Where I live you can rent one bedroom apartments for under $1…

This is just factually not true. There is plenty of empty homes, apartments and condos to house everyone. There are many units kept empty rather than lower prices. It is a myth that supply and demand sets prices.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a hypothetical for a two-stairwell building: two couches. We can avoid this dangerous scenario with a three-stairwell minimum requirement.

Good point. Why do we even bother with two-lane roads and a double yellow line? Such a waste of space. Very contrived to presume there is always a car coming the other way

The US would certainly be a nicer place to live if there were more roads with just one lane, like many older cities and suburbs already have.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two stairways result in double-loaded hallways which also negatively impact unit sizes and make it impossible to have windows on more than one wall in most rooms. It's a total disaster

The fire escape can count as a separate staircase too and it can go over windows.

It's crazy to me that people are arguing against two stair houses when I have a ladder in my single family home in case of a fire that blocks the stairs.

Fire in the only stairwell or a collapse, guess you just die or hope the fire department saves you before you suffocate.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#398

Maybe the biggest problem with regulations is that even if they're very positive when enacted, there is usually no mechanism to reevaluate them during the following decades. And so the effects of a fire 164 years ago screws up housing across the US today.

Re-evaluation is hard, costly, and risky: what if you actually degrade the safety a tiny bit? Or maybe you don't, but an incident happens, and your changes are going to be blamed by media? Doing nothing and groaning is safer for career.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#399
I've been hoping that this would change because the type of mid/low-rise multifamily housing we have in the United States is horrible. What I really hope happens is that ownership of multifamily real estate becomes much more fragmented.

Imagine multifamily housing where each lot is the same as a single family lot. You can have varied types right next to each other (one building could house several seniors in small apartments, another could house several young people in smaller apartments, another could be the owner in a two floor "house" on the top to floors with rentals below, another could be a building comprised of entire floor flats that are each owner-occupied).

They can be redeveloped so much more easily or repurposed. When an entire block is a huge multifamily building, it's pretty much impossible to change anything about it.

But, we really need to also change how we finance these buildings. A big reason everything is the same these days is because the finance system underwrites them. The system is there for these other types of smaller buildings.

Re: The case for single-stair multifamily

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

supply and eemand sets rents. You you rent perfecly good existing houses cheap in rural areas. Nobody wants to like there. There is no reason to think there is enourh room for everyone who wants to like in San Francisco, and statistics prove they heve not been building much. Mean while in other states we find areas of demand where housing is not expensive. Where I live you can rent one bedroom apartments for under $1…

This is just factually not true. There is plenty of empty homes, apartments and condos to house everyone. There are many units kept empty rather than lower prices. It is a myth that supply and demand sets prices.

This comment makes me really sad; it's someone who wants to help but ends up hurting.
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