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Is my plane a 737 MAX?

ismyplanea737max.com

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Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#391

Post by stevehawk »

dist-epoch wrote: post #243
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doubt people are that afraid of 737 Max that they'll cancel a flight (and forfeit their ticket) over it Nobody rational will. But there are plenty of people with an understandable fear of flying who will create a customer-service kerfuffle over it. On the margin that might not do anything. But in aggregate it could affect how the airlines negotiate settlements from Boeing.

Everybody agrees that FAA is not what it used to be, these days the Boeing engineers are basically self-certifying their planes. So what's irrational in not believing that 737 Max is safe?

> Everybody agrees that FAA is not what it used to be, these days the Boeing engineers are basically self-certifying their planes.

I think Boeing /engineers/ would argue that statement and instead tell you that Boeing /management/ is self certifying the planes.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#392

Post by wasmitnetzen »

kube-system wrote: post #377
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MAX 8 killed more than 300 people due to Boeing's culture. This incident is a fair indication that this culture hasn't changed.

You don't know if this issue was due to a cultural problem at Boeing, because you don't know the reason the doors came off.

That's why I said it's an indication, and not an actual proof.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#393

Post by stouset »

bitcharmer wrote: post #380
stouset wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, we're seeing fatal issues with one specific company over and over again. We aren't . There were fatal issues with one system (MCAS) on one line of planes. This was addressed, and since then there have been zero fatalities (or injuries) caused by design and/or engineering issues by this manufacturer. Their safety record is not substantially different from that of Airbus (who have their own design issues, IMO, s…

> Boeing-designed and -assembled airframes have resumed a track record of safety that eclipses that of any other transportation industry. Could you please share some data to back this claim? For example comparison of the number of technical incidents per airframe in use for Boeing vs Airbus?

Sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_in...

You'll note the last time a major carrier in the U.S. experienced a fatality due to an engineering, manufacturing, and/or design error attributable to Boeing was in 1996, when a spark in the center fuel tank in a 747 caused it to explode midair.

Before that, 1994. Then 1991, 1989, and 1988.

We did also see one fatality aboard a 737-700 in 2018, but this was due to an issue with the CFM engine and which isn't attributable to Boeing.

Given this, it's pretty obvious on face value that—however you slice it—flying on a Boeing airframe on a major U.S. carrier is safer than every other form of transportation, including literally just walking. Driving, buses, trains, trams, bicycling, scootering, ziplining, whatever. They're all less safe.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#394

Post by bitcharmer »

jmward01 wrote: post #40

Aviation is safe. An issue happened and appropriate steps have immediately happened and in the end an already incredibly safe industry will be even safer. If a car has an issue we don't blink and we loose nearly 40k people a year in the US alone, but a plane has an issue and we panic. Yes, panic. This is not rational or helpful and is a huge reason why aviation is so antiquated. You want flying cars? Stop panicking a…

This comment misses the mark so badly it's actually hilarious.

The main problem here is Boeings steady decline in QA.

And no, panic and fear were not the drivers behind MAX inception. Greed was

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#395

Post by wasmitnetzen »

kube-system wrote: post #372
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MCAS crashes have been on MAX 8s, and those are not grounded. I have been avoiding all MAX models since that grounding back in 2019.

Why are you avoiding them now?

Because I know I'd feel much more miserable during the flight compared to being on an A320. (Not that I'll feel comfortable then, I hate flying on single-aisle planes in general.)

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#396

Post by dheera »

jerf wrote: post #239
diggan wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But at that point it's too late. I doubt people are that afraid of 737 Max that they'll cancel a flight (and forfeit their ticket) over it. Luckily the airlines I travel with only use Airbus, but if they were using 737 Max, I'd definitely book tickets that I can change at the last minute, and refuse to board if it turns out to be a 737 Max. Yes, that's probably illogical. And probably much of life is illogical. But…

It may be illogical from a strictly individual point of view. But from a broader societal view we'd all be better off if we did it and it is pro-social and pro-civic to be willing to sacrifice a little of your personal convenience to make a point like this. Nothing but nothing will get Boeing's attention like what is essentially an end-customer strike. In general quite a lot of the chains wrapped around us that drive…

> willing to sacrifice a little of your personal convenience

It's not convenience, it's that the ONLY reasonably priced flights are non-refundable ones, and not everyone can afford another flight ticket just to prove a point. Another idiotic thing that we need to change.

Although I really do wish there were an "Airbus only" option when booking flight tickets. And as much as I don't normally like to stereotype things, when it comes to safety I feel I've consistently seen much better safety standards in EU than the USA. Safety seems more drilled into the European culture. I just somehow have this gut feeling that some random dude at Airbus crimping some wire probably actually did everything correctly and to specifications.

Not to mention they have stricter work hour limits in Europe, so I don't have to worry about someone doing a shoddy job due to lack of sleep.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#397

Post by [deleted] »

kube-system wrote: post #219
philipov wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of who is ultimately at fault, this is about people not wanting to fly on these planes. They don't care if it was Boeing or if it was a subcontractor, they just want the information they need to cancel their flight or demand a different plane from the airline.

If it was a subcontractor, wouldn't they want to not fly on planes made by that subcontractor?

[deleted]

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#398

Post by stevehawk »

avgDev wrote: post #373

Late to the party but I'm flying a 737-900 next week. I was concerned, so I looked up if its the "plane", turns out, it is not. Boeing naming is so confusing. 737 naming: [1] The first generation "Original" series: the 737-100 and -200, also the military T-43 and CT-43, launched February 1965. [2] The second generation "Classic" series: 737-300, -400 and -500, launched in 1979. [3] The third generation "Next Generati…

And the 737NG has its own problems - https://simpleflying.com/boeing-737-ng-nacelle-redesign/

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#399

Post by stevehawk »

csharpminor wrote: post #31
bmitc wrote: post #7

The unfortunate thing is that they can change it at anytime. So you basically have to avoid airlines that have the MAX in their fleet, such as Southwest.

The only major U.S. airline to not currently operate the MAX is Delta. Frontier, Hawaiian, JetBlue, Spirit, and SunCountry also do not operate it.

On the other hand, Hawaiian, JetBlue, Spirit, Allegiant and others are all strapped with Airbus A320neos that are going to be grounded shortly due to engine issues related to P&W's GTF engine.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#400

Post by slingnow »

dionidium wrote: post #311
legitster wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The trend is heading the wrong way. Contrary to this sentiment, air traffic safety continues to improve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_accidents_and_inciden... If anything, air travel is so safe now that non-fatal incidents such as this weeks' stand out more than they would have in previous decades. And in comparison, driving is getting much more dangerous (at least in the US). https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

You'll sometimes see this dismissed almost derisively as, "people think they're in control when they're driving, but lack agency while flying, so that's why they fear the latter more." But that's completely true! Not every driver on the road is at equal risk of a fatal accident. A significant percentage of all fatal accident involve speeding, reckless driving, and/or alcohol consumption, to say nothing of distraction…

This isn't an argument about control, it's about safety. Control is completely irrelevant to the absolute probability of dying when taking one form of transportation vs another.

You may be 100% in control of a scenario where you are highly likely to die, and 0% in control of a situation where you could essentially live until you die of natural causes.

In this case, even if you exercise 100% of the control afforded to you by driving a car, you are more likely to die in a car than you are in an airplane.

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