Live data from Hacker News

IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

wsj.com

391–400 of 592 posts

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#391

Everyone is talking about layoffs and lack of hiring, but I've found the problem to be that companies are cutting costs by silently increasing workload on existing employees. Everyone is getting burnt out trying to keep a 300-person engineering team running on only 100 head count. That leads to more incidents, slower delivery, less innovation, longer hours. Even those who are still employed are seeing working conditi…

Is this based on Elon’s idea of trimming the fat? Id like to believe it isnt but its a copycat industry.

It's not as if Elon invented the idea. Every successfully entrepreneur who went on to found a large company has done it in one form or another. Maybe it didn't take the form of layoffs, but cost-cutting is a natural behaviour when the soft money disappears. Happened in 2008 as well.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#392

While a vast majority of comments here seem to indicate a lot of jobs being moved offshore, there are massive layoffs (even entities shutting shop in India. Github closed its office here, Twitter reduced its presence dramatically etc. Where I work, there are no back-fills for voluntary attrition or restructuring). Layoffs are a taboo of some kind here too, affected are treated as "non-performers" and recruiters will…

[deleted]

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#393
I was laid off at the end of last year and at the time I felt pretty bad about it. To land that job I spent the longest period in my entire career applying to jobs and I was extremely worried I'd have to repeat that process. But you know what: there is something fundamentally different about the job market at this point of time, during this time of year. This is only anecdotal but I'm seeing some of the best companies hiring for new positions. I'm seeing new, very promising startups spring up that are managing to raise money in a crushing bear market (I work in FinTech which due to regulation and a serious number of horrible events have sent the industry to its lowest point yet.)

If you're currently jobless you have one amazing advantage for you: January is the best possible time of year to find roles. Don't be discouraged when you see jobs with hundreds of applications. Most people just mass spam and aren't even remotely qualified. If you have the experience the best way to get hired is to engage with the job post. Show that you've read it, that you understand the companies mission, that you understand how the company is uniquely positioned and what value they're trying to create compared to everyone else. Then talk about how you can help solve their main challenges to make them successful. I guarantee you will stand out above everyone else who is just spamming generic cover letters. But this means only applying to jobs that also stand out to you.

tl; dr: im getting interviews just like every other time when the market was actually healthy. At the very least this is the best time of year to apply. So take advantage of it while you can.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#394
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a second part to this argument. There would be riots, for example, if agricultural workers were paid rates that would make Americans willing to do this. If you think food inflation is bad now, that would be off the charts. Like it or not, we benefit from cheap labor, across many, many different industries.

Something I advocate for in the UK is that we should actively suppress wages of industries like healthcare and agricultural with cheap foreign labour, while providing access to good and affordable education so that native workers maximally benefit from the migrant labour underclass. Specifically I think we should bring foreign workers here on mass to work in specific industries then deport them if they're unable to f…

> some people disagree with the ethics of importing a migrant underclass

and those very same people would also "disagree" with higher prices for essential goods/services.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#395
post #374
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatively young industry, the population pyramid of workers would have more people at the bottom. So gaining only 700 jobs isn’t that fun. That being said, I feel bad for newgrads, since it feels like nobody wants to train them anymore. Any job posting I’ve seen is mostly 2-3 year minimum experience at a professional level.

I have genuinely never seen an in-house training program in the software industry. Maybe some bullshit industry certs that amount to a single exam. But nothing like an apprenticeship style program where over a year you are taught and mentored. Even university doesn't teach you how to work in the industry. It's a very DIY career, we should probably change that.

There was a tech company in the UK who was doing it (irritatingly, I can't remember their name atm) with Oxford and Cambridge humanities grads. Just googled it and couldn't find it. If anybody remembers what I'm talking about, please reply below because now it's bugging me.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part that's left out of every statement that starts with "There's a shortage of workers in industry X" ... "willing to accept the current wages / working conditions". Similar for "jobs Americans won't do"... "at the wages being offered". It drives me insane that people freely accept the concept of supply and demand, except when it comes to labor.

There's a second part to this argument. There would be riots, for example, if agricultural workers were paid rates that would make Americans willing to do this. If you think food inflation is bad now, that would be off the charts. Like it or not, we benefit from cheap labor, across many, many different industries.

Cheap labor needs cheap food and cheap housing.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#397
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many retire/quit/die each year

Probably more relevant is how many over 40 give up coding because they're bored and/or employers dont want them any more. (I'm over 50 and finding it much harder to get piad compared to when I was younger despite kids moved out and I have lots of time to dedicate to working)

Ageism is one of the bad things about our industry. It's the last accepted form of discrimination. The irony is that when you're young and starting a family, you feel guilty about working crazy hours because you're not spending time with your wife and kids. Then when the nest is empty you've got plenty of free time to work hard and even learn some new things, languages, frameworks, &c. but at that point a lot of closed-minded companies think you're too old for software development.

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#398

> Based on analysis of US Bureau of Labor Statistics data by Janco, news that the IT industry added just 700 jobs following an estimated 262,242 jobs lost amid mass layoffs is shocking, but not surprising. So it isn't that only 700 jobs were created, it's that despite the massive layoffs everyone is reporting on and focusing on, there was actually a small net positive in job growth. > Currently, there are almost 100K…

All Principal/Staff positions or laptop repair. Canada's latest economic report had a net positive of only 100 jobs in the entirety of the labor market.

Isn't Canada still hiring loads of Filipino nurses, physical therapists, and caregivers?

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#399
post #389

While a vast majority of comments here seem to indicate a lot of jobs being moved offshore, there are massive layoffs (even entities shutting shop in India. Github closed its office here, Twitter reduced its presence dramatically etc. Where I work, there are no back-fills for voluntary attrition or restructuring). Layoffs are a taboo of some kind here too, affected are treated as "non-performers" and recruiters will…

I would say the article is about Pax Americana. Anywhere else — like Russia, Asia, Africa — IT is booming with stronger demand than ever. Probably, one of the main reasons for layoffs in “US and what have you” is new wave of deglobalization and having your own google, visa, etc. “just in case”. This way possible markets shrink and big “IT troops” become less economically feasible. We may even see in the not so distan…

Russia?

Re: IT employment grew by just 700 jobs in 2023

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am realising that this is what taxes pays for in Denmark. I have a masters in computer science (5 year, postgraduate + thesis, Aarhus University which is top 100 and even higher for PL + semantics, which is my thesis subject) that I received tuition free and I am continuing with a professional degree in business at a reasonable tuition at 10k USD for the entire degree . It appears like continual learning should be…

I don't necessarily think it needs to be government run. The best schools in America are private. Ironically government support (the federal student loan system) is imo largely responsible for crazy high tuition in the U.S. Maybe there is just less demand in Denmark? But I feel like demand surged here, and with easy access to capital it drove prices to absurd levels.

The last part is the biggest factor. When all the easy, soft VC capital dried up, so did the jaw-dropping salaries.
Post reply on HN