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The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

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Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#391
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the Soviets had visual confirmation of the target Vincennes did not (which to be fair should have done - and not excusing their actions here)

That's a good point, why didn't they seek visual confirmation first?

They probably would have, if they would have had the capability.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When there's a call it answers/declines, mute/unmute, and ends a call Literally do not care about a phone call when it is raining. Hopefully, it at least has coyote time on it so when you adjust the wiper speed it will ignore a phone call. > Not sure I need a button for steering wheel tilt, should only be when stopped. I've had to adjust while driving. I don't remember for what reason, but I know I've had to do it…

> I also destroyed my transmission by putting it in park at high speed. Worth it. absolutely not worth it. modern cars (ie, anything with abs and disk brakes) achieve maximum deceleration when you mash the brake pedal and allow the car to modulate the clamping force. using the emergency brake and putting the car in park just locks up the wheels. the whole point of abs is to avoid this. you destroyed your transmission…

This was most certainly not anywhere near a modern car. Further, it was a gravel road, which is a case where I'm not sure ABS brakes work better, but I could be wrong.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#394
post #37

Pro-tip to those unused to mastodon web-ui: you can click the eye on the top right of the center column (next to Back) to expand all posts at once.

Maybe my expectations are very very low at this point. But I thought it was ok.

At least there was no popup a few seconds after starting to read the article.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these warships even doing in the PERSIAN gulf Iran doesn't own the PERSIAN gulf any more than India owns the INDIAN ocean.

Sure, so if a Iranian helicopter carrier parked itself in international waters near New York City, everyone would be totally chill with that right?

It would be surrounded and hounded by the Navy, just like the soviet fishing trawlers.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#396
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are currently also bombing civilian areas, fully aware that they are civilian areas. They might be "fully aware" that those areas are used by the "enemy" to stockpile materiel and gather personnel. That would make those areas legitimate targets. Can you prove a) there were no military targets there, or b) the attackers were "aware" there were no military targets there? I can't - nobody can. That's why when you…

> They might be "fully aware" that those areas are used by the "enemy" to stockpile materiel and gather personnel. You are approaching this from the wrong end. People like doctors or firefighters are multipliers, that is, they make the whole group stronger by a disproportional amount. A doctor can aid themselves and others with above average effectiveness. The same applies to firefighters. A professional firefighter…

Thanks. I was thinking more about the guy who actually put in the coordinates and pressed the button, and whether they were aware of what their action meant. I kind of forgot about the ones who gave the order and were aware of the whole picture. I think, if anyone, these are the people who deserve the hatred, and should be put on trial, definitely.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#398
post #293

Another good write up of this incident is on the excellent Admiral Cloudberg blog: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-long-shadow-of-war-t... Another article in that series is also related to a UX mistake: Air France Flight 447. This crashed, in part, because the inputs from two control sticks (one for pilot and other for copilot) were averaged if they disagreed, unlike on a Boeing (at the time at least) where t…

> unlike on a Boeing (at the time at least) where they're physically connected so you can't have contradictory inputs in the first place I don't know if it's true, but I recall reading somewhere that this physical connection is a breakable link, so if one of the controls gets stuck the other control can still be used to fly the airplane (after some application of strong force to break the connection).

Yes it is true. The force needed is pretty high.

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#399
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of "physical control" would be appropriate for a radar-guided beyond-visual-range anti-air missile?

https://www.amazon.com/STAPLES-Staples-Easy-Button/dp/B001FV...

“A left mouse push fires it. We actually asked for a great big red button, but they wouldn't give us one.” (British submarine, not the top-level story UI) https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/jul/17/tvnews.iraqand...

Re: The 1988 shooting down of Flight 655 as a user interface disaster

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was shot down at night. There's no way to view the livery on a dark plane at just before 2 AM.

Yes there is; we call them "lights". The logo on the tail was lit up. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KAL007747-2.png The pilot of the fighter also reported seeing "two rows of windows", which can only be a 747 at the time. https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/31/us/kal-fight-007-anniversary/... > “I could see two rows of windows, which were lit up,” Soviet pilot Col. Gennadi Osipovitch told CNN in 1998, describing th…

Cargo don't. Converted intelligence/C4I planes? Often do.

Also, logos like that aren't that well readable especially at speed, and the actual shootdown happened in a way that could be mistaken for evasive maneuveurs.

Essentially, I feel that if we're going to let UX take part of the blame for Iran Air 655, we have to allow wider narrative for KAL007 as well (Personally I think humans are directly at fault for both cases)

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