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New models and developer products

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Re: New models and developer products

#391

Post by ehnto »

layoric wrote: post #374
ethbr1 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not marketing, it's economics. If you set money on fire -- eventually there's a time when you need to stop doing that.

I think the parent is more talking about the other common situation where organizations start focusing on maximizing profits, rather than just working towards a basic profitability. Eg, Google Maps API pricing comes to mind. Yes, OpenAI might be (we don't know how much) burning through their $5B capital/Azure credits now, but I think the `turbo` models are starting to addressing this as well. And $20/month from a lar…

You do see VC bloat up company sizes for what could have been a very profitable small to medium sized private business, without enshittefication, had they not hired dozens more people.

Re: New models and developer products

#392

Post by bertil »

gen220 wrote: post #314
zizee wrote: post #258

In people's experience with these sorts of tools, have they assisted with maintainance of codebases? This might be directly, or indirectly via more readable, bette organized code. The reason I ask is that these tools seem to excel in helping to write new code. In my experience I think there is an upper limit to the amount of code a single developer can maintain. Eventually you can't keep everything in your head, so m…

> If these tools help to write more code, but do not assist with maintainance, I wonder if we're going to see masses of new code written really quickly, and then everything grinds to a halt, because no one has an intimate understanding of what was written? Yep. Companies using LLMs to "augment" junior developers will get a lot of positive press, but I guess it remains to be seen how much the market consistently rewar…

What are the tasks that you envision are key to maintenance?

- bug finding and fixing

- parsing logs to find optimisation options

- refactoring (after several local changes)

- given new features, recommending a refactoring?

I feel like code assistants are already reasonable help for doing the first two, and the later two are mostly a question of context window. I feel we might end up with code bases split by context sizes, stitched with shared descriptions.

Re: New models and developer products

#393

Post by Rastonbury »

lolinder wrote: post #318
ebiester wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the lock-in argument here. Yes, if a competitor comes in there will be switching cost as everything is re-learned. However, from a code perspective, it is a function of the key and a relatively small API. New regulations outstanding, what is stoping someone from moving from OpenAI to Anthropic (for example) other than the cost of learning how to effectively utilize Anthropic for your use case? Open…

> However, from a code perspective, it is a function of the key and a relatively small API. You're thinking of traditional apps and APIs. In an AI application, most of the work is in prompt engineering, not wiring up the API to your app. Prompts that work well for one model will fail horribly for another. People spend months refining their prompts before they're safe to share with users, and switching platforms will…

Still moving between models is less arduous than switching cloud providers, depending on use case and price difference of course. Most models hold GPT4 as the benchmark they aspire to and should converge to its capabilities.

Re: New models and developer products

#394

Post by andrewjl »

whytai wrote: post #71

Every day this video ages more and more poorly [1]. categories of startups that will be affected by these launches: - vectorDB startups -> don't need embeddings anymore - file processing startups -> don't need to process files anymore - fine tuning startups -> can fine tune directly from the platform now, with GPT4 fine tuning coming - cost reduction startups -> they literally lowered prices and increased rate limits…

None of those categories really fall under the second order category mentioned in the video. Using their analogy they all sound more like a mapping provider versus something like Uber.

Re: New models and developer products

#395

Post by cornholio »

somsak2 wrote: post #298
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it won’t because they’ll use the model you paid for and take your customers.

How do you square this with OpenAI's assertion that they never use data from enterprise customers for their own training? Are you suggesting they're lying?

OpenAI just slurped the entire internet to train their main model, and the world just looks on as they directly compete with and disrupt authors the globe over.

Whoever thinks they are not interested in your data and won't use any trick to get it, then double down on their classic "but your honor, it's not copyright theft, the algorithm learns just like an employee exposed to the data would", isn't paying attention.

Re: New models and developer products

#396

Post by anotherpaulg »

anotherpaulg wrote: post #83
tornato7 wrote: post #78

According to [1], the new gpt-4-1106-preview model should be available to all, but the API is telling me "The model `gpt-4-1106-preview` does not exist or you do not have access to it." Anyone able to call it from the API? 1. https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8555510-gpt-4-turbo

Same. I am eager to run my code editing benchmark [1] against it, to compare it with gpt-4-0314 and gpt-4-0613. Edit: Ha, I just re-read the announcement [2] and it says 1pm in the 5th sentence: We’ll begin rolling out new features to OpenAI customers starting at 1pm PT today. [1] https://aider.chat/docs/benchmarks.html [2] https://openai.com/blog/new-models-and-developer-products-an...

I've been able to generate some preliminary code editing evaluations. OpenAI is enforcing very low rate limits on the new GPT-4 model. I will update the results as quickly my rate limit allows.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38172621

Also, aider now supports these new models, including `gpt-4-1106-preview` with the massive 128k context window.

https://github.com/paul-gauthier/aider/releases/tag/v0.17.0

Re: New models and developer products

#397

Post by DerJacques »

mvkel wrote: post #315
minimaxir wrote: post #4

Most of the products announced (and the price cuts) appear to be more about increasing lock-in to the OpenAI API platform, which is not surprising given increased competition in the space. The GPTs/GPT Agents and Assistants demos in particular showed that they are a black box within a black box within a black box that you can't port anywhere else. I'm mixed on the presentation and will need to read the fine print on…

> Assistants demos in particular showed that they are a black box within a black box within a black box that you can't port anywhere else. I'd argue the opposite. The new "Threads" interface in the OpenAI admin section lets you see exactly how it's interpreting input/output specifically to address the black box effect. Source: https://platform.openai.com/docs/api-reference/runs/listRunS... tells you exactly how it's…

I agree that some parts of the process now seem more like “open”, but there is definitely a lot more magic in the new processing. Namely, threads can have an arbitrary length, and OpenAI automatically handles context window management for you. Their API now also handles retrieval of information from raw files, so you don’t need to worry about embeddings.

Lastly, you don’t even need any sort of database to keep track of threads and messages. The API is now stateful!

I think that most of these changes are exciting and make it a lot easier for people to get started. There is no doubt in my mind though that the API is now an even bigger blackbox, and lock-in is slightly increased depending on how you integrate with it.

Re: New models and developer products

#398

Post by eropple »

epolanski wrote: post #376
swatcoder wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody's got their own calculus about how competitive their space is and what this tech can do for them, but some might be best off dancing around lock-in by being careful about what they use from OpenAI and how tightly they integrate with it. This is very early in the maturity cycle for this tech. The options that will be available for private inference and fine tuning, for cloud-gpu/timeshare inference and fine…

While everything you say mighy be true, it's also irrelevant. Time to market is more important, you build users you get an edge, you can swap models later on (as long as you own the data).

Almost nobody sharecropping their way to an MVP has a product except at the sufferance of the company doing the work for them - regardless of which one they switch to later.

There's very little there there in most of these folks.

(For the few where there is, though, I agree with you.)

Re: New models and developer products

#399

Post by prabhasp »

modeless wrote: post #12

Whisper V3 is released! https://github.com/openai/whisper/commit/c5d42560760a05584c1... Looks like it's just a new checkpoint for the large model. It would be nice to have updates for the smaller models too. But it'll be easy to integrate with anything using Whisper V2. I'm excited to add it to my local voice AI ( https://www.microsoft.com/store/apps/9NC624PBFGB7 ) I assume ChatGPT voice has been using Whisper V3 and…

Love that Sama literally spent 16 seconds of a 45minute announcement on whisper - https://app.reduct.video/o/eca54fbf9f/p/250fab814f/share/9d9...
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