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Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#391

Post by krupan »

astrange wrote: post #359
krupan wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no personally identifiable information stored in the public ledger. Just addresses, scripts, and Bitcoin amounts. If someone that knows you (like an employer or a Bitcoin exchange) sends you Bitcoin, they will know addresses that you claimed were yours. As soon as the Bitcoin moves from those addresses to another address then the provable link to you is broken. All the chain analysis you have heard of is bas…

"Addresses" are personally identifiable information if you're associated with one, or if you use an exchange, which you'd want to because most people providing goods and services (and also your local tax authority) want the local currency. If you're claiming these upgrades made Bitcoin anonymous in 2021, that's obviously not true, since multiple people who stole billions of dollars of bitcoins from exchanges have bee…

From the linked article, "James Zhong committed wire fraud over a decade ago"

He definitely wasn't using Schnorr signatures 10 years ago.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#392

Post by switch007 »

avitous wrote: post #339
raincom wrote: post #41

Banks hide behind Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations in order to debank people. Chase closed my account, and the reason Chase gave: "Financial institutions have an obligation to know our customers and monitor transactions that flow through our customers' accounts. After careful consideration, we decided to close your account because of unexpected activity on these or another Chase account." I didn't dispute any t…

> not an instance of disrespecting any Chase employee either on phone or in person. Since when is this grounds for closing an account?

I feel sacking customers got really popular during Covid and continued after.

Many phone systems have a thinly veiled threat about zero tolerance policies, to treat staff with respect, and in the case of certain government agencies here in the UK, that they will refer cases to the police. The same is repeated on written posters in eg doctors and dentist offices

Just a coincidence I’m sure but I find employees (especially on the phone) even more condescending and unhelpful these days

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#393

Post by jopsen »

slovette wrote: post #29
ciabattabread wrote: post #9

At minimum, there needs to be a law that requires banks to identify to the customer the specific transactions that led to the closing of the account. And if there’s no prosecution related to these transactions after a year, the ban gets lifted.

Ehm. No. Innocent until proven guilty, not guilt until proven innocent. Being de-platformed from financial infrastructure is tantamount to being economically jailed and instantly forced into life altering poverty. This isn’t some silly app you’re getting banned from… Banks shouldn’t be allowed to ban anyone. They should need a court order to lock up/ban someone from access/mobility of their own property. That said, t…

Or you need better digital ID systems to reduce risk of fraud?

Example: In the EU all internet transactions require a second factor, it's annoying -- but typing in a credit card number is already crappy UX.

But making identify theft harder could also reduce risk of keeping clients with abnormal patterns. Since the bank will have more confidence that the customer isn't subject to identity theft.

Obviously, there are more options. Maybe, banks should be held more accountable.

But increasing the bar for fraud by having a strong online identity system could probably raise the bar a lot.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#394

Post by eru »

XorNot wrote: post #99
Ajay-p wrote: post #58

Debanking is deeply unfair but more so in our society that is moving increasingly towards a cash-less society. A person can be debanked for no fault of their own and that causes them to be unable to pay rent, bills, etc. Like being arrested - there is little recourse without great expense or effort.

There's a very obvious utility in the US which should be able to prevent this: The US Postal Service. It's federally required to exist, and services all Americans already. Basic banking services should be one of the things it is expanded to provide in a minimal, safe fashion (i.e. no loans or lending, but guaranteed electronic banking and funds transfer services).

> It's federally required to exist, [...]

Are you talking about a specific law, or about the clause in your constitution?

If the latter: the postal clause merely gives congress some powers, but does not require them to do anything.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#395

Post by WalterBright »

momirlan wrote: post #370
WalterBright wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." -- Karl Marx We don't need to imagine how that would work out. There are plenty of examples.

yes, there are the millions dead in various "cultural" and agri-"cultural revolutions, the millions dead in gulags because they opposed the horrors of communism. i grew up in it, and it makes me vomit when someone mentions that murderous ideology.

There are plenty of Marxist communes with no dead, but they never worked, either. The US has had something like 20,000 of them.

It's probably the most tried and failed system in history. There are even examples that predate Marx - the Jamestown and Plymouth settlements.

It's perfectly legal in the US to set up a commune. The people who want it are free to give it a go.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#396

Post by eru »

bmulcahy wrote: post #173
lxm wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> guaranteed electronic banking and funds transfer services That alone exceeds the requirement of “minimal” as there’s now a need to hire staff for fraud monitoring, handle disputed transactions, chase fraudulent transfers, deal with those who forgot their passwords to electronic banking, had their passwords stolen, etc. What are the new revenue channels that will pay for all that extra staff (and considering it’s US…

>What are the new revenue channels that will pay for all that extra staff (and considering it’s USPS, their pensions)? The federal government, unlike most other entities, does not need to match new revenue to new spending. It can and does create new money for any spending it deems worth it. Funding basic banking for all through the USPS is worth it.

What about boring old taxes?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#397

Post by eru »

phpisthebest wrote: post #253
bmulcahy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What are the new revenue channels that will pay for all that extra staff (and considering it’s USPS, their pensions)? The federal government, unlike most other entities, does not need to match new revenue to new spending. It can and does create new money for any spending it deems worth it. Funding basic banking for all through the USPS is worth it.

>>> It can and does create new money for any spending it deems worth it. Yes, that is called inflation.... how is that working out for everyone that needs food, housing and energy?

Well, the usual answer should be boring old taxes, not inflation, if you want to finance something that user fees don't cover. Just like it's done for nearly every other government programme?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#398

Post by o11c »

lazide wrote: post #316
advael wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if we successfully neutralize this paradigm's ability to take over crucial institutions, such as by enforcing lines of responsibility as I've suggested

The hell is guaranteed because no one in the decision making loop cares - yet.

And they will continue to not care, because they will be able to avoid being affected.

The racism mention in the article is notable - this isn't prima facie racism (and certainly affects more than minorities), but it is derivative racism since "people who can actually be heard to go through the system in the right way" is race-skewed.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#399

Post by eru »

hwillis wrote: post #227
jimbob45 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the connection between the Postal Service and banking. Is it just it was historically there? If that’s the case, you could attach it to any department.

banking does sometimes require actual money still, much more so if you're poorer. What's another institution that has offices everywhere , ships things every day, and privately and securely stores things for huge numbers of customers? Remember, DMVs/RMVs are state-level. Hell, they're even surprisingly used to keeping large amounts of valuable paper safe. It wasn't that long ago that you could make a lot of money ste…

> What's another institution that has offices everywhere, ships things every day, [...]

Walmart or 7-11 or so? Jokes aside, giving banking licenses to retailers might be a sensible thing to do. (Or removing the whole system of banks requiring licenses altogether would be even better.)

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#400

Post by krupan »

Ridj48dhsnsh wrote: post #365
krupan wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of discussion in the comments here about how ingrained banks are into our current system. I do honestly see Bitcoin as a way out of that, but at this early stage of it, you'd probably have to get help from someone who is not debanked in order to interact with our heavily banked system. If you are honestly interested in this, take a close look at Strike.

> take a close look at Strike. Could you clarify what you find interesting about it? I skimmed their website and looks like just a lightning wallet. Am I missing some key feature that helps one interact with fiat systems?

It is a lightning wallet, a Bitcoin wallet, an exchange, and a venmo like payment app.
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