Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#391

Post by suoduandao3 » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 4:44 PM UTC

sneed_chucker wrote: post #238

ceasefire wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure working class people suppress "fancy words". A fella could get mistaken for a "fairy" or maybe even get a beatin'. It's like how mothers used to chip in to enforce gender inequality their daughters suffered. It is a defeatist mindset, that is culturally enforced and learned from bitter lessons of the reality of power balance and dynamics in society. edit: like many here at my development stage (middleclas…

> Pretty sure working class people suppress "fancy words". A fella could get mistaken for a "fairy" or maybe even get a beatin'. > And that raises the question of whether it is in fact required (as a sort of petite-bourgois-oblige) for those of us who are comfortable with "fancy words" to do the talking for the otherwise encumbered oppressed? I honestly cannot tell if this is a serious comment. I hope not.

It looks to me like the best satire I've seen all day.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#392

Post by Always_Anon » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

Salgat wrote: post #192

JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

Cultural appropriation is a very real thing, but the line between disrespectful/mocking and genuinely participating in a different culture can get gray. Unfortunately sometimes people take this understanding to the extreme.

>Cultural appropriation is a very real thing

No it's not. It's about as real of a thing as the miasma theory. It's a idea that's been laundered through academia, but that doesn't make it anything but "well researched" fiction.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#393

Post by Always_Anon » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 9:49 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #222

JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

The term "cultural appropriation" has been widely misused and diluted by people who don't really understand it. If I, a white man living in upstate NY, were to don Haudenosaunee ritual gear and record myself performing a traditional dance of theirs, that would be cultural appropriation. It refers to a dominant culture taking the trappings of a colonized or otherwise marginalized culture and using them for entertainme…

>If I, a white man living in upstate NY, were to don Haudenosaunee ritual gear and record myself performing a traditional dance of theirs, that would be cultural appropriation.

No it wouldn't. It wouldn't be because cultural appropriation doesn't exist. Culture is not a zero sum game. You doing that takes away nothing from the originating culture.

>It refers to a dominant culture taking the trappings of a colonized or otherwise marginalized culture and using them for entertainment, for clout, or otherwise for our own purposes.

Ah yes, White original sin and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion-tier rhetoric about the international White conspiracy. Conspiracy theories about some "dominance" and hierarchy of cultures on some fabricated scale is what the Nazis used to justify cleansing Europe of the Jews.

>On the other hand, if I were to travel to Japan, stay at a ryokan (traditional Japanese inn), and wear the simple kimono they provide for guests, or go to a kimono rental shop and rent a kimono from them for the day, that would be cultural appreciation, because that is something that the Japanese offer openly as a way for foreigners to connect with and understand their culture.

Japanese offer openly people to wear kimonos anywhere. It's often a gift given so others can wear them outside of Japan. You can appreciate culture anywhere.

>In general, cooking and eating food of another culture in your own home cannot be cultural appropriation. (The only exception I can think of offhand is if the food is part of a closed religious practice of some sort.) Similarly with music—it's very unlikely to be cultural appropriation unless the music is part of a religious practice or being used disrespectfully. Hairstyles and clothing require a bit more nuance and can depend on the situation.

Not in general, in totality: none of the aforementioned things are "cultural appropriation". The concept is an illusion.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#394

Post by Always_Anon » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 5:37 AM UTC

danaris wrote: post #331

pipes wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to decide if it's disrespectful? Making fun of religious practices is a god given right!

Making fun of dominant religions, that are in no danger of being wiped out because people find them ridiculous, is fine. Making fun of marginalized religions, which are already frequently ridiculed because they're different from what the dominant culture does, and which are under threat, either overall or within a given area, is a very different matter. The problem with cultural appropriation is specifically that it…

>Making fun of dominant religions, that are in no danger of being wiped out because people find them ridiculous, is fine.

Making fun of any religion is fine. No religion is above reproach, no religion is beyond mockery. None of them.

>Making fun of marginalized religions

Here's a newspeak term. There is no such thing as a "marginalized religion". This is a fictitious concept.

>which are already frequently ridiculed because they're different from what the dominant culture does, and which are under threat, either overall or within a given area, is a very different matter.

Good, every religion should be ridiculed. There's no culture that's beyond ridicule.

You're trying to create an illogical concept where hatred of White people is a reasonable thing. You can't come straight out and say it, so you launder the idea through a luxury belief and magically the hatred is tolerable.

>The problem with cultural appropriation is specifically that it exacerbates marginalization and discrimination against already-marginalized groups.

No it doesn't, because "cultural appropriation" doesn't exist. Upholding cultures even if they're backwards because it's politically fruitful breeds resentment. This is "baizou" behavior.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#395

Post by Always_Anon » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #206

JanSt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cultural appropriation As a european, I just can't wrap my head around this. How is it racist if I like a food of an other culture so much I cook it? Or I like a hairstyle of different culture so I also want to wear it. Or clothes. Or making music. Or.... I mean, I admire all that stuff so much that I want it to be part of my life. How is this racist?

cultural appropriation is related to colonialism and post-colonialism, its relation to racism as a concept is really a function of how racism relates to the other two fields. Of course many terms mutate in meaning.

Ah, it's related to fictional grievance studies! Make sense since cultural appropriation is also fictitious.

Re: Luxury beliefs are status symbols (2022)

#396

Post by indigo945 » Thu, Nov 16, 2023, 10:46 AM UTC

suoduandao3 wrote: post #388

indigo945 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the argument is not that it's anti-feminist, it is that it's a broad-swath argument that could be levied against any number of beliefs, and the author deliberately chose to wield it only and exclusively against feminist and anti-racist positions. I made that quite clear in my original comment by suggesting several conservative "luxury beliefs" that I believe the author would have to criticize on the s…

Do you have a theory why left-wing authors don't discuss luxury beliefs?

I think they do. It's just, it's so blatantly obvious that "single-payer healthcare is too expensive" and "there's no problem with police violence toward black people in particular" are "luxury beliefs" (in the sense that you can only afford to hold them if you're not directly affected by them) that there's no need to spell it out. (This point is sometimes spelled out when it comes to discussions on race and gender -- that's what "privilege" means. That "privilege" isn't brought up as much when it comes to economic/class issues speaks to the state of class warfare in the US.)