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Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

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Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the hypothetical of terms on the table for a loan is a red herring, so is the supposition that management had months of visibility into their demise. Convoy wasn't a pure software business. It didn't operate on massive gross margins; it was operationally (and financially) levered. Decades-old trucking companies are going down unexpectedly; I'm not sure why HN 's armchair executives figure they could have called th…

At least two ex-Convoy employees have posted in this thread saying they are "extremely unsurprised" that this happened, and could see it coming. Handwaving away things like you have doesn't add value - many of us have worked at startups, and the warning signs are common and repeated. A handwaving dismissal along the lines of "plenty of companies have turned things around at the last moment, running on fumes, so it wo…

> two ex-Convoy employees have posted in this thread saying they are "extremely unsurprised" that this happened, and could see it coming

They were laying people off every few months for over a year. There is a difference, however, between a material chance of default and being completely fucked.

> it would have been irresponsible for Convoy to do anything but run it it zero!"

They should have put severance terms into their original employment contracts. Providing employees with de novo severance after you know it's going under guarantees creditor lawsuits. (Remember: Convoy was heavily indebted.) One thing worse than getting shafted like these guys would be receiving a subpoena months later clawing back severance.

If there is a non-civic action item from this, it's to put good severance terms into your employment agreements before shit hits the fan. (Counterpoint: it could accelerate your demise.)

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#392
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously it didn't pan out, but you could think of Convoy as an aggregator of small carriers. A big shipper doesn't want to deal with 1,000 small carriers but they can deal with Convoy, and Convoy deals with the small carriers. Convoy could interface with large companies as though they had a large fleet of drivers and trucks. That "fleet" wouldn't require paying for benefits to employees, maintenance or fuel on the…

Logistics is so crazy saturated. We have an aggregator in Cincinnati, TQL, that was started by a dispatch employee and has just blown up like crazy ever since. They are still growing.

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Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#393
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>CEO said there'll be no severance or healthcare. Classy. Learning a lot about how certain people treat their employees during these last couple of admittedly insane years. Good for future reference, I guess - though not much solace now. I feel for the employees. Edit: Wow, more responses than I thought! I admit that the tone of my comment was too reactionary, but my opinion stands. I won't modify the original commen…

Startups are not established businesses. They are inherently risky ventures. If you want to be coddled and showered with benefits, go join a Fortune 500. Startups are not for you.

I'd hardly call "Series E" a startup. Just a company that was bleeding money.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#394

1.1B USD in funding! I'd definitely want to know more about how things came to be like this.

1.1B in NOLs. How does this not become a $200MM acquihire by UPS pre-bankruptcy? I’m asking because I would assume that the tax mitigation could be an asset and feel like I am missing something. I am not an accountant, but would love for one to explain why bankruptcy is the best choice.

Because they have a pretty significant outstanding lending portfolio that they are on the hook for. See: https://twitter.com/adam_keesling/status/1715063558898364602...

Convoy effectively got into the factoring business and extended short term (30/60/90 days) loans to the trucking companies. Now, they don't hold these loans on their balance sheet but rather package them and sell them to lenders as asset-backed lending portfolio.

The thing with these is that typically the originator (in this case Convoy) will need to take the first tranche of losses. (This is where the $240M debt facility came in). As the freight market deteriorated, Convoy was effectively margin called by the lenders and could not come up with the money.

Any acquirer would then have to take up this debt. Even though Convoy may have a valuable asset, UPS is not in the business of managing a debt portfolio. Any acquirer would be dissuade by this baggage.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#396
post #72
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>CEO said there'll be no severance or healthcare. Classy. Learning a lot about how certain people treat their employees during these last couple of admittedly insane years. Good for future reference, I guess - though not much solace now. I feel for the employees. Edit: Wow, more responses than I thought! I admit that the tone of my comment was too reactionary, but my opinion stands. I won't modify the original commen…

Ex-Convoy employee here: if a company is shutting down, it obviously can't provide severance. It's not a matter of class or not.

Small (under 10 people) startup I worked at shut down this June, and I got 2 months severance I wasn't even owed, pure good will of the CEO.

It's a choice.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#397

(Ex-)Convoy engineer here. No mystery as to why this happened, sudden tight market and low available capital demolished us. External reasons given in the article were the same we knew and couldn't do anything about considering that none of the M&A options materialized. Detailed the shutdown on a call at 8:30am Pacific this morning. CEO said there'll be no severance or healthcare. Lot of talented folks in Seattle and…

You guys should spin up an identical service that's lightweight, turn a profit from day 1.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with you until you mentioned unions. tech is fundamentally incompatible with unions for several reasons: 1. it will drive down the wages and give power to just another bureacracy 2. Union participation does not differentiate between highly skilled (and sought after) tech worker, from mediocre tech worker who gets by using copilot and chatgpt 3. I dont need union to negotiate with company on my behalf - I can ne…

Here's a point by point rebuttal: 1. Hollywood unions disprove this 2. Hollywood unions (SAG, DGA) disprove this 3. Unions don't mean you can no longer negotiate. DiCaprio still does 4. One upside: Unions represent members who are no longer able to work 5. Hollywood unions have some pretty specialized folk and it works well for them As an individual - you only bargaining chip is your ability to do work. If you lose c…

SAG really is a gold-standard union. Critically, it has a monopoly to multiple buyers of its talent. (Sort of like the UAW.) Single-employer unions are more constrained.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a company is shutting down, it obviously can't provide severance Not really true. The company is owned by its shareholders, and they may choose to use funds belonging to the company (after paying outstanding obligations) to pay severance, or they may divide the funds among themselves. If there are no funds, they can choose to invest more to pay severance. Obviously they're unlikely to want to do that, but it's n…

Employee claims supersede equity and debt holders. The question is whether the company shuts down with money in the bank or keeps running until it's out. People should remember the board and CEO for screwing over employees.

>People should remember the board and CEO for screwing over employees.

This is important if you're staying in more or less the same field - many specialties are smaller worlds than you may think.

I am somewhat bad with names, so I've learned to take notes. I have a list of people I'd love to work with again, and another of people whose presence will stop me from accepting an offer.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a company is shutting down, it obviously can't provide severance Not really true. The company is owned by its shareholders, and they may choose to use funds belonging to the company (after paying outstanding obligations) to pay severance, or they may divide the funds among themselves. If there are no funds, they can choose to invest more to pay severance. Obviously they're unlikely to want to do that, but it's n…

Employee claims supersede equity and debt holders. The question is whether the company shuts down with money in the bank or keeps running until it's out. People should remember the board and CEO for screwing over employees.

My understanding is that in the US, earned wages (while employees were employed) are indeed employee claims. Not paying these is what YC guidance above says will lead to "very bad things."

After people are let go, severance and continuation of healthcare beyond some term mandated by law (maybe state, maybe federal, maybe varies by state, don't know) are not considered employee claims in this sense.

CEO and the board didn't follow the YC guidance mentioned above, and it's on them.

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