Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis • Hacker News Board

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#391

Post by mindslight » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #378

nickff wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many workers resist using safety equipment, even when it is provided to them, and they are shown how to use it. This is common for fall protection too. Safety regulations requiring provision of equipment may not get the job done. For all we know, safety equipment was available.

Correct. I don't even know why are we having this conversation Use a mask and cut it using water for dust management If people were getting shocked while working with electricity we'd be calling the ridiculousness of it. This is basically the same thing, over a longer timeframe

The same dynamic exists in electric land with working hot and arc flash protection. But at least it's not a chronic exposure risk.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#392

Post by corndoge » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does a respirator not solve this problem? The article and many comments here seem to blame people wanting cheap countertops as either part or all of the issue, but if it's safe to cut them with a respirator or wet saw, the focus should be on making companies give their workers respirators/wet saws and enforce their use.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#393

Post by saveferris » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

And it's not like it hasnt been known for a long time how dangerous silica can be. I worked in a chemical manufacturing plant as an engineering intern in the 80s, at a plant that made marine coatings. One of the products contained silica as an ingredient. The precautions that went into the production of that product were crazy, workers entering the area had to wear what amounted to space suits with full respirators. I vividly recall putting these suits on any time we had to do any work in that production area.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#394

Post by loandbehold » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #380

Weird this is happening in California of all places, the most regulated state in the country when it comes to potentially hazardous materials and workplace and consumer safety?

The problem is mostly with unlicensed contractors, usually undocumented immigrants. It's very easy to start countertop installation business. Buy some tools, list yourself at thumbtack and you are ready to go. You can always find work by underbidding guys with license. These guys often don't even have bank accounts and work for cash.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#395

Post by philipkglass » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

ReactiveJelly wrote: post #347

CalRobert wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to trade all the fancy shit I don't need for a ten hour work week and more time to do what I want, but annoyingly we've made artificial scarcities of essentials like housing, and codified forty hour weeks as the norm, making this hard. You're right that it's more common in Europe. When I go back to the US life feels so insanely gluttonous. Driving a studio apartment three miles to get a coffee is lunacy

We could definitely build more housing. But "Meditations on Moloch" suggests that Malthusian traps might be inevitable. Why work ten hours when a political enemy like Russia or China might work 40 hours or 80 hours and then nuke you?

An effective nuclear deterrent is very low cost compared to an effective conventional military force. With nuclear weapons you can credibly threaten to kill 20 million people in $enemy_country [1] at a cost smaller than that needed to maintain a crewed air force of moderate capability. In theory, global military spending could drop by 90% with equal-or-better prevention of state-on-state warfare if more nations replaced conventional military spending with spending on nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately, nuclear deterrence only works against rational actors, by rational actors. It doesn't prevent irrational human behavior or accidents. So a heavily nuclear armed world would probably see a downturn in violence between states until one fateful year when an accident or miscalculation escalates to kill more people than every war of the past 200 years combined.

[1] Terms and conditions apply: only valid for countries with population greater than 20 million.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#396

Post by smeyer » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #360

asdefghyk wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does music volume, not just get reduced to safe level?

The volume you are exposed to depends on how close to the speakers you are. In a large venue the people closest are getting a lot more sound than the people in the back

And yet, I've been to plenty of venues that were uncomfortably loud in back while not going to any (indoors, professionally set-up) venues that were uncomfortably quiet in back.

I think it's more than what you've described. I think it's that a lot of folks actually prefer dangerously loud volumes, and this contributes to a positive feedback loop of expectations for loud concerts. I wish most concerts were quieter, but I may be in a minority.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#397

Post by withinboredom » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

alex_lav wrote: post #385

sterlind wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firing them wouldn't harm them more than letting them destroy their lungs. And PPE requirements are commonly mandatory: you can't set foot in a construction area without a hardhat, no matter who you are.

> And PPE requirements are commonly mandatory Yes, and it's mandatory to drive the speed limit. And yet, here we are.

Depends on the fines. Where I am, simply doing 11+ gets an automatic suspension of your license. When I was in the US, it was a joke in that you had to "get pulled over" to get a fine. Here it is automated all over the place.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#398

Post by philipkglass » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #334

bjnewman85 wrote: post #317

the incurable disease in the title is greed in the hearts of others that values the lives of these people less than the shiny things they make for rich people

quartz countertops are popular because they are cheaper than other types of countertops while looking expensive. this is like the Shein of counters. wealthy people probably use natural stone.

Natural stone contains silica too, so it's not clear that these workers would be silicosis-free if they'd been cutting e.g. granite instead.

Average granite is 72% quartz:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite#Chemical_composition

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#399

Post by IngvarLynn » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

brianwawok wrote: post #384

sneak wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their body, their choice. I support everyone's right to destroy themselves if they choose to do so. If we don't have the right to destroy ourselves, how can we also have rights to build and better ourselves? How can we be said to own ourselves at all if we can't choose to destroy ourselves? The idea that we can't be allowed to choose to harm or destroy ourselves is the most fundamental violation of the most basic of…

You will pay their tax funded health expenses too?

Reason 10001 to abolish taxes.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#400

Post by noobermin » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

Just a comment, but pulmonary fibrosis is terrible. People don't know that often damage to your lungs cannot be reversed. I survived two major lung infections and over a year later still have issues climbing lots of stairs or steep hills that were easy before. I mean I dont have fibrosis (that would be an immediate death sentence) but it's crazy how scaring and damage in the lungs just happens and that part of your lung is just useless now. It's just with fibrosis, the scarring never ends and subsumes both your lungs and thus you die.

People have an attitude (somewhat helpful) that you can always get will yourself to recovery or "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and all that, but severe damage to your lungs really has no treatment. Essentially your body just adapts to the reduced function by being more efficient or by changes in behavior (like walking slower). That lung capacity is lost for good.