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New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

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Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#391

Post by mikecoles »

msrenee wrote: post #380
philistine wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second gunmen doesn't require a conspiracy to explain. Oswald fired two shots: one in Kennedy's back which did not fully penetrate, and one through his neck which hit Connally. Then, in the ensuing confusion, a Secret Service agent following the motorcade accidentally discharged his AR-15 in the back of Kennedy's head, killing him. The agent who pulled the trigger on the ground doesn't even need to realize he had…

Firing an Ak-15 and not realizing it? I know it was a hectic, stressful situation, but that gun has some kick to it.

AR or AK? AR-15 has very little recoil. It's one of its features.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#392

Post by IAmGraydon »

7thaccount wrote: post #284
jimhefferon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember with 100 percent clarity doing great in sophomore high school math. I loved it and I went on to get a PhD. Then my mom passed and I got a box of stuff with my name on it from her house. It included my report card. C.

That's because you remember correctly...the simulation just messed up the report card object and accidentally decremented the counter twice. In all seriousness it's crazy how bad memory is. Like we all have a false version of the truth.

It's not only memory. Realtime perception is completely warped as well. An objective view of reality is impossible for humans.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#393

Post by jwally »

fatfingerd wrote: post #378
jwally wrote: post #377

If I'm the CIA and I have exclusive access to the President's food, transportation, calendar, etc...this isn't how I take him out. Plane malfunction, opiate overdose in bathtub, food poisoning. Plenty of other options with way higher probability for success.

You mean if you are in the Secret Service?

probably, lol! Or food service for that matter.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#394

Post by hilbert42 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #286
hyperhopper wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also skeptical of Landis, but what do you mean about preserving evidence? It's a bullet. It just was next to an explosion that cleared it most most evidence. Then the barrel rifling altered the metal. That would not be harmed by picking it up. Then it went through jfk. Okay, we already know his DNA is on it. The real question is why are you picking up random things from a crime scene and then putting them down i…

> I am also skeptical of Landis, but what do you mean about preserving evidence? I don't really know, but it hardly seems like good practise to pick up a bullet. Don't crime scene investigators usually take calibrated pictures of important items such as bullets and often try to determine the trajectory? There's also the chain of custody to think about - the bullet could easily have been swapped with a different bulle…

"I don't really know, but it hardly seems like good practise to pick up a bullet"

Of course it's not but that was no ordinary crime scene. There were thousands of people about, what would happen to the vehicle etc., etc? There's no way the crime scene could be secured in such a short time. And JFK had to be rushed to hospital. Nothing was certain.

He saw the bullet as evidence and on the spur of the moment secured it. After that he was likely in shock and thus his actions were more that of an automaton.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#395

Post by philistine »

defen wrote: post #343
philistine wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second gunmen doesn't require a conspiracy to explain. Oswald fired two shots: one in Kennedy's back which did not fully penetrate, and one through his neck which hit Connally. Then, in the ensuing confusion, a Secret Service agent following the motorcade accidentally discharged his AR-15 in the back of Kennedy's head, killing him. The agent who pulled the trigger on the ground doesn't even need to realize he had…

How would that agent eventually account for the missing round?

I don’t want to turn into a conspiration loonie but it might have been easy to make that little mishap disappear.

The quality of the secret service back then was nothing compared to what it is now. I mean one of the reasons the secret service agent in the article didn’t come forward was because he got drunk with other secret service agents the night before the shooting and he didn’t want it to surface.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#396

Post by barrysteve »

knowingowl wrote: post #237
barrysteve wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shinzo Abe was killed last year. It's not some grand conspiracy, just some guy with a gun. I can imagine pulling off JFK 2.0... but I don't want to. Surveillance cements consequences. If it was Israel, then who cares? Are we doing diplomacy by assassination now? The reality of politically motivated, err , unpleasantness, has existed forever. Let's not forget the 20yr war that happened straight after 9/11. Less killin…

Of course actual unhinged will try to assassinate people. That's to be expected in a world with so many people. What has changed is that covert political assassinations by the secret services of nation states is no longer a viable strategy the way it was when JFK and RFK were killed. Not even the Mossad is good enough to pull it off these days, and they're probably the best in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

True, Mossad directly is probably a stretch. Though if they do it right, we should never know that they did it.

Soo.. an intelligence firm that needs to be advertized or spoken of.. is a little strange.

As catch rates go up, the more unhinged your assassin needs to be, so why not take a step back and influence the 'unhinged' single adult male, via the internet and never even raise an eyebrow?

The atmosphere of ambiguity around the world, is thick and dense lately...

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#397

Post by LPavearoadi »

Don DeLillo's 'Libra' is sterling, convincingly colors the multiple-shooter narrative, and adds lots of depth to Oswald the man - a whole biography really. It is a novel, therefore fiction; but, by now, what of the assassination's narrative isn't in question? Highly recommended.

Link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libra_(novel)

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#398

Post by knowingowl »

barrysteve wrote: post #396
knowingowl wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course actual unhinged will try to assassinate people. That's to be expected in a world with so many people. What has changed is that covert political assassinations by the secret services of nation states is no longer a viable strategy the way it was when JFK and RFK were killed. Not even the Mossad is good enough to pull it off these days, and they're probably the best in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

True, Mossad directly is probably a stretch. Though if they do it right, we should never know that they did it. Soo.. an intelligence firm that needs to be advertized or spoken of.. is a little strange. As catch rates go up, the more unhinged your assassin needs to be, so why not take a step back and influence the 'unhinged' single adult male, via the internet and never even raise an eyebrow? The atmosphere of ambigu…

The problem with the unhinged is that they're also incompetent, generally. Abe was only susceptible to an unhinged assassin because its Japan and violence/guns are so rare, security is/was so lax. Getting close to Abe, even when he as the PM, was incredibly easy. Hopefully the lesson has been learned there, as it already has been in most other countries.

I'm sure the secret services have come up with creative things. The Russians sometimes use poison when abroad, but even that is usually discovered now due to sophisticated hospitals.

The old tricks of discrediting, bribing, and blackmailing are probably still just as effective as ever. Maybe more so.

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#399

Post by diogenes4 »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #247
diogenes4 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way (for most of us with finite resources) to verify the vast majority of history, even recent history, even history that happened today. To me this is like saying "who cares what may or may not have happened in the past". This particular conspiracy theory is interesting because the assumed enemy here—the Soviet Union—was ostensibly (and seeming authentically) unhappy to see this happen. So who wanted JFK…

> There's no way (for most of us with finite resources) to verify the vast majority of history, even recent history, even history that happened today. That's an entirely different issue. > So who wanted JFK dead and why? Again, Occam says Oswald.

[dead]

Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory

#400

Post by simonh »

jcranmer wrote: post #269
simonh wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t see it live, it was on a news replay minutes after it happened. I remember thinking I have to tell my brother and my dad, but what will I say? It felt a bit like when you stub your toe and it doesn’t hurt yet, you know something bad has happened and this is the pause before the impact hits when you tell everyone. I seem to remember them asking what exactly had happened, and I struggled to explain what I’d se…

> With 9/11 I seem to remember one of the impacts only being seen from the explosion, but you couldn’t see the plane itself. Maybe that was the second one? There is an archive of several news channel and their coverage of 9/11 at https://archive.org/details/911/day/20010911#/ . Some of the news channels had better viewpoints and saw the second plane hit on live footage [1]. The NEWSNW channel has a very solid view of…

Thanks, that's great. After this amount of time I can't say what memories of seeing a plane impact is which tower. I suppose I must have seen footage of the second impact, I just know I didn't see it live.
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