UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B • Hacker News Board

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#391

Post by chx » Mon, Sep 04, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

ETH_start wrote: post #383

chx wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody. https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/04/05/debunking-bu... > Ordinary person: “Your weird Internet money sucks to use. It’s slow and expensive. I lost my coins by mistake and it can’t be fixed. If I get hacked it can’t be fixed either.” > Bitcoin advocate: “But everyone wants [list of ideological aims held only by weird people]! Everyone I know, anyway.” B…

Being slow and expensive doesn't make something a scam. If you falsely label the blockchain as a scam, and want people to not have even the option of using, I contend that your real issue is with people having self-custody over their money, and thus you believe in a modern form of serfdom. All your sophistry aside that is.

The scam nature is explained in the links in my thread opener: https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=37368544

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#392

Post by ETH_start » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:31 AM UTC

chx wrote: post #391

ETH_start wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being slow and expensive doesn't make something a scam. If you falsely label the blockchain as a scam, and want people to not have even the option of using, I contend that your real issue is with people having self-custody over their money, and thus you believe in a modern form of serfdom. All your sophistry aside that is.

The scam nature is explained in the links in my thread opener: https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=37368544

That has already been refuted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368625

Please read the responses and don't encourage flame wars.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#393

Post by ETH_start » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:34 AM UTC

wtmt wrote: post #142

ETH_start wrote: post #18

Many countries have a single dominant privately owned e-cash system. The only alternative to a future with centralized financial systems, where the individual's right to transact won't be at the total mercy of the whims of forces they don't control (e.g. a corporation which deems their credit risk as unacceptably high, a political zeitgeist that deems their unwillingness to get vaccinated as making them deserving fin…

While I agree with many of your points, in this context, UPI is just a money transfer platform. It’s not currency or a currency equivalent of any sort. There is a CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency) in a pilot phase in India since last year.

The UPI is an interface for the Immediate Payment Service, which is a payment network owned and operated by the National Payments Corporation of India, which in turned is owned jointly by the Indian government and an association of private Indian banks: the Indian Banks' Association.

I personally think a centrally owned service like the IPS is very useful. I just think we would be better off having a permissionless and decentralized alternative that has wide enough adoption to make useful and hard to prohibit, to both provide competition to the centrally controlled network, and to act as a failsafe in case that network is mismanaged and run in an abusive fashion, e.g. locking out those who refused to get a COVID vaccine.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#394

Post by tavish1 » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 5:22 AM UTC

davelondon wrote: post #125

I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. This meant: 1) There were some cashless fast food outlets that I couldn't eat at 2) There was no way for me to book an intercity bus ticket I eventually managed to get a bus ticket by sweet-talking someone in a shop to use their personal UPI account in exchange for cash. I fear ther…

That is why I hate seeing people equating this to 'development' or some other metric of improvement. This excludes not just you, but people who do not have a phone, do not know how to use one, cannot use one, have access to just cash etc.

In contrast, in Japan, they may have NFC payments by card/phone, online payments, but every single bus/train/cab/boat accepts cash as the lowest common denominator. Forget payments, all public offices still support paper + post for all procedures I've had to do, with the option of doing things with a phone or a PC. In India, however, for several things I've had to do, they would rip out the old system and replace it with a online portal with dubious implementation, and often disregarding laws (for example using UID number as legal identity proof, while it shouldn't have been, by law).

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#395

Post by chx » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 8:54 AM UTC

ETH_start wrote: post #392

chx wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scam nature is explained in the links in my thread opener: https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=37368544

That has already been refuted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368625 Please read the responses and don't encourage flame wars.

There is not a word that would contend any of the arguments made. If you meant:

> The only fundamental difference inherent to the respective designs of blockchains and traditional banking, is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody.

Then this is nonsense. The fundamental difference between the two is that one deals with real money while the other does not.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#396

Post by mehulagrawal » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 11:01 AM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #240

mehulagrawal wrote: post #23

That's >50% of monthly global Visa transactions [1]. Monthly volume at ~$190 billion [2], as compared to ~$1 trillion monthly volume for Visa globally [3]. Pretty good, given that most banks have daily UPI limits of $1200, and much lower individual transaction limits. [1] https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/technology/2023/07/... [2] https://www.cnbctv18.com/technology/upi-monthly-transaction-... [3] https://ann…

It's 1200 USD per day.

"daily UPI limits of $1200"

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#397

Post by Aerbil313 » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 3:37 PM UTC

uwagar wrote: post #274

vinay_ys wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super affordable smartphones and cheap and fast 4G data, great apps like GPay and PhonePe with lots of gamification and cashbacks and ubiquitous merchant acceptance through apps like PayTM, PhonePe and GPay were key drivers for this. Then, demonetization and covid were accelerants to achieve critical mass. Post 2022, its been unstoppable.

one conspiratorily wonders if its a government ploy to turn everyone cashless so that they can be debanked at will.

Cash is a less than optimally efficient part of the current economic systems, not unlike credit cards are The logical conclusion of technological development in this area would be something like a micro hardware security key storing blockchain wallet keys implanted inside your hand, activated by your thoughts or a certain movement or something, at least as far as I guess.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#398

Post by ETH_start » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 5:23 AM UTC

chx wrote: post #395

ETH_start wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has already been refuted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37368625 Please read the responses and don't encourage flame wars.

There is not a word that would contend any of the arguments made. If you meant: > The only fundamental difference inherent to the respective designs of blockchains and traditional banking, is censorship resistance through genuine self-custody. Then this is nonsense. The fundamental difference between the two is that one deals with real money while the other does not.

One can deal with any money on the public blockchain, like USD-backed stablecoins.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#399

Post by arapacana » Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 11:52 AM UTC

9991 wrote: post #59

nopinsight wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree than tracking detailed purchase data can lead to serious discrimination and inequity especially in a dictatorship. The use case in your example, however, seems fair: * The person has a choice whether to consume fast food regularly. It’s their freedom, yes, but they should also accept the costs that come with their lifestyle choices. Similarly, if someone chooses to regularly drive at a daredevil speed, they s…

Why should I subsidize parents who choose to raise kids in carcinogenic cities?

The hubris of this is phenomenal. People have ancestral homes in places that have become carcinogenic because of industrial activity they didn't ask for, the best job opportunities are often in places that you must go to in order for your family to have the best opportunities possible.

The amount of privilege in asking this question is just shocking. As if people can so easily choose where they live. Try telling miners and nomadic construction workers that.