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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#391

Post by knodi123 »

robterrell wrote: post #359
technothrasher wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This market already exists for things like enabling Navigation on VW/Audi cars. People were offering to enable the hidden Android Auto support on my Porsche Macan for $600, which I almost went for until I found the scripts and instructions to do it myself.

This is how I got CarPlay on the used BMW I bought. Gave some guy in Thailand my VIN and $60, he sent me firmware to install, and now I drive around with working CarPlay and the vague notion that I've maybe been p0wned in ways I don't fully understand.

When your car idles, it's contributing to his Folding@Home account rank

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#392

Post by vondur »

wongarsu wrote: post #319
zapdrive wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also change my facial hair style 4 times a year. Will start getting plastic surgery twice a year starting next year.

Against face recognition you could use CV dazzle makeup [1] to look less like a face. However I wouldn't recommend using that approach for your vehicle 1 https://dangerousminds.net/comments/foil_facebooks_facial_re...

I wonder how the face painting antics of Death Metal bands would hold up to face recognition software?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#393

Post by d4l3k »

malwrar wrote: post #257
d4l3k wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the map can't talk to Tesla it'll use Google maps directly. I usually don't allow connections to Tesla on my rooted Model 3

How does this work with their charging network? Are you still able to use their chargers, or are you stuck with home charging & third parties?

Supercharger auth is between the car and the charger and doesn't require an internet connection. I get billed the normal way via my Tesla account since the VIN is registered

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#394

Post by kbos87 »

kstrauser wrote: post #349
kbos87 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ongoing costs aside, it’s important to also recognize that there may have been massive up-front costs to develop something like self-driving before it generates revenue, which the manufacturer should have the right to recoup/monetize. If they choose to do that through a subscription, that feels like it’s within their right.

As the end user, I couldn’t care less about a manufacturer’s costs. That’s a them problem, not a me problem. I understand your point. I just don’t care. They sold me a thing, and now it’s mine.

That strikes me as a pretty dissonant argument on HN. If we play that out, no software creator would have a defensible way to monetize what they invested time, energy and money to create. Enforceable laws protecting IP are the difference between entire sectors of the economy existing vs. not being worth the effort.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#395

Post by code_runner »

martin8412 wrote: post #128
code_runner wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mercedes taking responsibility thing was at least partially clever marketing. there are really extreme limitations last I saw, which honestly is understandable.

The limitations are due to the legal framework Mercedes lives up to. The updated version only recently came out.

I do think they are doing it more responsibly for sure. Just that given the limitations it’s difficult to compare the offerings at this point

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#396

Post by kelnos »

kbos87 wrote: post #312
alistairSH wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relatively clear to me... Features cost money, so I should pay for them. Wether that's via an option package (traditional) at order time OR via a software update (Tesla) after purchase doesn't matter. BUT! As long as that feature doesn't have recurring costs to the manufacturer (heated seats), it should be a one-time fee, and transfer with ownership. Something like self-driving, where there might be an active in…

Ongoing costs aside, it’s important to also recognize that there may have been massive up-front costs to develop something like self-driving before it generates revenue, which the manufacturer should have the right to recoup/monetize. If they choose to do that through a subscription, that feels like it’s within their right.

Customers are not responsible for the company's business model.

I'm fine paying for software. And I'm fine with a subscription model if I actually get new things periodically during my subscription.

Put another way, if you sell me a static, unchanging piece of software (like a software update to enable heated seats), then that should be a one-time charge. If you sell me a self-driving package that gets regular updates over time, then I'm fine with a subscription.

(Self-driving software is a bit of a grey area, though. I should probably have to pay for new features, like "now it can drive on some more roads where it would previously disengage and require a human to handle it". But I should not have to pay for an update that fixes safety issues with existing functionality.)

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#397

Post by d4l3k »

seanthemon wrote: post #201
d4l3k wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a blog if you're interested haha https://fn.lc/post/ I've been hacking on my car and creating my own self driving models Code is at https://github.com/d4l3k/torchdrive

Very cool, am going to eat this up. FYI some of your images won't load for me, shoots me a 502 here https://fn.lc/post/diy-self-driving/

Not sure why they aren't loading, seem to be fine now

They're also at https://github.com/d4l3k/fn.lc/tree/master/static%2Fdiy-self...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#398

Post by Denvercoder9 »

beiller wrote: post #174
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). While I intuitively agree with you, I'm having a hard time arguing against the economic argument in favor it. Producing a single version of a product is generally cheaper than producing two different versions. Also offering a lower-margin,…

Producing the extra weight of the seat heater requires extra fuel to burn. Now multiply that by the number of cars on the road. Will cost the customer a (small) amount extra in fuel costs for a part that is not being used. So there is an economic argument that ya, we can subsidize manufactures by taxing people more. Seems like a bad deal to me. Now lets talk about CO2 output of driving around extra dead weight. Makes…

The extra weight/fuel costs just shifts the price point where it's a good deal (as it makes the product slighly worse), it doesn't change anything fundamental to the argument.

Or to put it in another perspective: carmakers have never optimized for weight at the cost of everything else (as otherwise we'd all be driving around in cars made from titanium or carbon fiber). What's the difference between putting in a heavier seat with a non-functional heater to reduce production costs, and using steel instead of aluminium to reduce production costs?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#399

Post by m463 »

eschneider wrote: post #331
m463 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see two different ways of looking at this If you enabled a seat heater, enabling hardware that the car already has installed, or hot-rodding the engine, I don't think it is that big a deal. But if you downloaded and installed software from tesla that didn't come with the car, or did something like enabling free supercharging, that would be more like theft of services. I expect if this becomes a thing, features…

The flip side of that is when they disable features that were purchased when a car is purchased used.

I think the disabling features of a used car has some nuances.

1) If tesla took possession of the used car and then sold it to you, I think they can disable features.

2) If you sold your car to someone, and THEN tesla disabled features I am not ok with that.

With case #1, I think it is like any used car. People flip cars. They can take a car, remove expensive rims or other options and sell the car without them. People also buy cars and part them out, selling each piece individually. This is ok because the flipper owns the car before selling it and they can do what they want.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#400

Post by Ylpertnodi »

closewith wrote: post #289
ballenf wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying dash cams are illegal broadly there?

Dash cams are much more tightly regulated in the EU than elsewhere (you become a Data Processor and have all the responsibilities that comes with that). Private ANPR in public spaces is unlawful in I think every EU state?

Fucking hell, here we go again: "Dash cams are much more tightly regulated in some parts of the EU than elsewhere."

It depends on the eu country of which there are several...including an ex-eu country.

How it comes accross: One of the things i hate about America is that in new york all the californian building restrictions and zoning are killing free speech.

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