A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now • Hacker News Board

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#391

Post by MostlyStable » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #364

MostlyStable wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that the reason they stopped getting made was influx of dramatically cheaper toasters, at a time when the idea of paying top dollar for premium kitchen tools was not very common. I'm also pretty sure that fixing all of your issues would not be hard with a modern re-design. It would just result in a ~$100+ toaster. The crazy thing is is that _there are more expensive toasters than that_, that are basic…

> fixing all of your issues would not be hard with a modern re-design I'm not so sure. You could probably make the slot wider, but it's still a 100% analog device that operates via heat expansion of metals. The adjustment is going to be finicky. People expect toasters to "just work" without maintenance. As soon as you add digital electronics to automate the analog adjustment... why bother with the complicated analog…

That is not even close to the biggest advantage. The biggest advantage is the sensor instead of a timer for how long to toast. If I had to pick one advantage, it would be that one. The fact that it also means that the raising/lowering is automatic is gravy in my opinion.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#392

Post by CivBase » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

AlecSchueler wrote: post #180

CivBase wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's more convenient to buy a new fridge than to seek out an old one in good condition on the used market? And because they don't manufacture old fridges so the remaining good ones fetch a much higher price? And because there's no way for a consumer to reasonably determine the longevity of a new product before purchase? I don't necessarily think that's why people aren't buying this fridge but those are reason…

Why do you make your statements into questions?

To emphasize they are hypotheticals which I am offering with an unsure, questioning tone.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#393

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

potta_coffee wrote: post #379

lotsofpulp wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim was not that your parents’ fridge lasted 25 years, it was that appliances in general lasted 25 years. If that was true, manufacturers would have been advertising 25, or least 10, 15, 20 year warranties to win customers. Nobody putting their money where their mouth is is a better signal than anecdotal data.

I understand the claim. I know my experience is anecdotal but I think it's common enough that many people can relate. I don't really need empirical evidence for this one. I also think it's common sense that companies go out of business when there's no repeat buyers because their products last a lifetime.

>I also think it's common sense that companies go out of business when there's no repeat buyers because their products last a lifetime.

I had not considered this, but I guess it would be a deterrent to offering long warranties.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#394

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #339

klyrs wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, a 5 year guarantee is pathetic. Appliances lasting 25 years was once unremarkable.

Without proof of 25 year warranties, I call bullshit. If a seller had a product good enough to offer a 25 year warranty, and they could sell it for 5x cheaper than a product with a 5 year warranty, they would not have stopped selling it, because people would not have stopped buying it.

[deleted]

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#395

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #368

dublin wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ALL older appliances were way more reliable than any you can buy today. I'm just old enough that all our appliances are from the 1980s, plus a huge chest freezer from the 60s or 70s bought secondhand on Craigslist for $45. They are simple, reliable, faster, and work better than their modern counterparts. Our refrigerator, bought in 1989, has never had any problem at all. They can be easily fixed, and parts are still…

While old appliances have good features, LG and Samsung have earned a reputation of being bad. Whirlpool and GE still make some good stuff and they still sell parts. The reason you keep the old washer is the new versions legally cannot use as much water, and so they don't clean as well.

Oh you can buy the old wasteful washers if you still want them. They just don't got any EnergyStar ratings (in fact, people have been shopping around for "lack of EnergyStar" to find those old wasteful washers).

But "they don't clean as well" is a bit of a myth. More water requires more soap, and as it turns out, shuffling clothes around with *proportionally more soap* and *less water* leads to better cleanliness for the vast majority of stains.

------------

Think about it: if my washer only uses 1 gallon of water, but yours uses 5 gallons of water, your soap is 5x less effective than my same soap.

Its not the "water" that cleans, its the soap after all. With one exception: caked on mud prefers water over all other solvents.

But with regards to blood, sweat, grapes, tomatoes, and "typical" stains, its not the "water" that does anything. Its the soap. See ConsumerReports.org testing (ketchup tests and whatnot), as well as efficiency numbers that they've tested.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#396

Post by cududa » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:54 PM UTC

Night_Thastus wrote: post #265

starbugs wrote: post #3

> Thing is, producing crappy, cookie-cutter, uninspired, overpriced junk that falls apart within 5 years (generously speaking) pays more to the shareholders. That's how we got from there to here. This summarizes it quite well for me.

I get a little tired of repeating this, but there are some good reasons why fridges (and most appliances) are the way they are now: * Strong regulation on energy use by appliances (modern fridges are much, much more efficient than ones from 70 years ago) * Extreme competition from companies all over the world * Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all The…

I mean even when you buy an expensive appliance, the majority of them still tend to break way too quickly and are just more costly to repair.

I'd happily pay more for something well made, but, unless it's like commercial kitchen quality, it's still not "great"

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#397

Post by ekanes » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

Night_Thastus wrote: post #265

starbugs wrote: post #3

> Thing is, producing crappy, cookie-cutter, uninspired, overpriced junk that falls apart within 5 years (generously speaking) pays more to the shareholders. That's how we got from there to here. This summarizes it quite well for me.

I get a little tired of repeating this, but there are some good reasons why fridges (and most appliances) are the way they are now: * Strong regulation on energy use by appliances (modern fridges are much, much more efficient than ones from 70 years ago) * Extreme competition from companies all over the world * Consumers who care more about convenience and cost above all else, and reliability basically not at all The…

Similar to why the flying experience can be so awful - consumers by airline tickets based largely on price. The airlines that lower costs (and experience) best win.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#398

Post by chollida1 » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

forgetfreeman wrote: post #175

DSMan195276 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is more that you can buy expensive fridges today that could last that long - people don't because they care more about spending less on a fridge.

But you can't buy expensive fridges that last that long, they just come with more stainless steel, wifi, and a larger price tag. The internals are all commodity components that are manufactured in the same plants from the same materials as lesser models, all with the same incentives to have households replace their fridge as frequently as possible without actually tanking the brand.

Sure you can.

We spent about $12,000 on our fridge 15 years ago when we first renod our house and its still going just fine. Never once has it had to be serviced.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#399

Post by justsomehnguy » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #329

jrochkind1 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

A basic, white, 18-20 cu ft refrigerator/freezer can still be purchased new for under $400 in 2023 dollars. In the 1950s, a TV or refrigerator was a major purchase for most families. Therefore there was more concern over quality of materials, repairability, and longevity. Today, a TV is basically a throwaway item. Nobody really repairs them, if you have a problem under warranty you exchange it, or if it's out of warr…

It doesn't helps what there is only the panel itself, circuit board and power cord, basically.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#400

Post by jancsika » Mon, Jul 31, 2023, 6:58 PM UTC

dublin wrote: post #320

jancsika wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best low-end Frigidaire you can get today is around $750. For $5k you could buy 6.7 of them. Lowe's extended warranty appears to be 5 years, so I'm guessing these things are designed to last 6 years. 6 * 6.7 = 40.2 years. My own estimation is that a $5k fridge today will last perhaps 10. And most of that money is going toward smart features that add complexity, which adds to the risk of having to pay for repairs.…

Not as much as you think - the people selling them want you to think the old ones were awful and need replacing, but they were designed for both reasonable efficiency and decades-long life. (You really need to factor in a literal 6-10x lifespan difference into efficiency and environmental impact figures, too...) I have a large 60s/70s vintage chest freezer I bought on Craigslist a few years ago. I worried that it was…

> it costs me only about a dollar a month to run

The low end Frigidaires are estimated at $56 a year, perhaps $8 less per year for an Energy Star one.

I don't know anything about chest freezers, but there's no way a general purpose 1960s/70s fridge that one opens multiple times a day gets anything close to that.