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Europe pushing for lunar time zone

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Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#391

Post by cornholio »

poulpy123 wrote: post #323
cornholio wrote: post #125

I am a proponent of a Martian timekeeping system where each day has 24 hours 39 minutes and 35.244 seconds and all the rest of time units have standard lengths. For example, at midnight your martian clock would show the time as 24:39:35 for a fraction of a second, then wound back to 00:00:00. The calendar then would track the Earth calendar as close as possible, with shortened months to accommodate for the longer day…

Since there is no and will never be any people on mars for more than few months, there is no point of having a special time beside UTC

Even for those few months, there is overwhelming reason to link the circadian rhythm of the mission with the solar martian day, see the rover missions; a drifting UTC mission time with no intuitive mapping of days to sols immediately raises massive logistic problems and human error risks.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#392

Post by reportgunner »

msm_ wrote: post #328
reportgunner wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my point being that 1 minute passing is 60 seconds both on Earth and the moon. We have a Lunar calendar and the moon is tidally locked to Earth so it seems trivial to convert Earth time to Moon time. The terms "Earth time" and "Moon time" seem weird to me in themselves, in my view it's "Human time". I understand having a separate time for Mars or other planets as they have their own cycles.

> The terms "Earth time" and "Moon time" seem weird to me in themselves, in my view it's "Human time". - It's also weird the time on the moon would have to account for variations in earth rotatoin speed (as UTC does) - Time on the moon actually goes slower due to relativistic effect - the effect is small (in tens of microseconds per day) but measurable.

Yes the article states that the time goes slower on the moon but 56 microseconds every day is negligible. (there is 1000000 microseconds in every second)

We can surely skip one second every 27 years on the moon if we are able to add 1 day every 4 years on earth.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#393

Post by N19PEDL2 »

throw0101a wrote: post #283
N19PEDL2 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> each day has 24 hours 39 minutes and 35.244 seconds > at midnight your martian clock would show the time as 24:39:35 for a fraction of a second A similar idea could be to have exactly 24h 39min 35s each day (i.e. the last second before midnight is 24:39:34), then add a leap second every 4 days to compensate for the missing 0.244s, then skip it when the 0.006s errors cumulate up to 1s. This just because in my opinio…

> This just because in my opinion it is easier to live with leap seconds than with non-integer seconds. That is not the opinion of a bunch of folks who want to get rid of the leap second on Earth: * https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03783-5 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33658541

But no one is proposing to have non-integer seconds as a solution to get rid of the leap seconds.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#394

Post by iainmerrick »

kubanczyk wrote: post #277
iainmerrick wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a different single letter per time zone band? That’s almost elegant if so (as long as you ignore the many places with idiosyncratic time zones).

I didn't know what a time zone band was, but I was able to find out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Zone_(band) But seriously, in DST world, the numerical offsets (-6, ...) are confusing enough, adding yet another "simpler" notation would only increase confusion.

I did say almost elegant...! I just hadn't noticed before that the 26 Roman letters are just enough for 24 hour-wide timezones, which seems like a nice coincidence, so I wondered if anyone had tried it. There are way more than 24 different zones in practice, of course.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#395

Post by eru »

ted_dunning wrote: post #381
benj111 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does base 11 work for counting on your fingers? Last I checked, most of us have only 10 digits

I use 8 fingers with two thumbs for carrying. That can be interpreted mathematically or practically.

Base nine is your friend then? (Or base five, perhaps?)

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#396

Post by downvotetruth »

kube-system wrote: post #19
newaccount74 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about 1000 ".beats" per day? Swatch tried that, but it didn't catch on.

A “day” is a terrible horrible no good very bad unit. Units should be constant! https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Deviation_of_day_l...

Units cannot be constant due to measurement imprecision. Units preferably would be defined such that the imprecision is minimized.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#397

Post by downvotetruth »

brnt wrote: post #253
petesergeant wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want to annoy an English person, use an American flag to represent English-language localization

EUs English guidelines emphasized en_UK because that used to be the main audience to whom texts should be unambiguous. That requirement is no longer there, so en_EU (which defacto exists, although it has many variations) might now officially move closer to en_US, since that is what most cultural exposure is to for those to whom English is not a first language (i.e. almost everyone in the EU). I therefore propose a ha…

Yeah just forget about the Australians, Irish, South Africans, ...

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#400

Post by nabogh »

cwkoss wrote: post #370
lolinder wrote: post #276

> There are also technical issues to consider. Clocks run faster on the moon than on Earth, gaining about 56 microseconds each day, the space agency said. Further complicating matters, ticking occurs differently on the lunar surface than in lunar orbit. At first this sounded like they were describing a mechanical issue with analog clocks, but they're not: time on the moon actually moves this much faster relative to E…

How significant is the time warp? Ex. how many moon-years are equivalent to 100 earth years?

2 seconds difference by my calculation
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