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De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

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Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#391

Post by wkat4242 »

haunter wrote: post #83
wkat4242 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTSC is no longer debloated. The latest version comes with the same crapware, Windows app store, "recommended" Microsoft account, telemetry that can't be turned off etc. It's just a stable version frozen in time but heralding it as the bloat-free alternative is no longer true. I have access to it through work and I gave it a spin recently but it's no longer what it used to be.

>LTSC is no longer debloated. The latest version Which one? Or I guess it's not a public release? I have installed IoT 2021 (Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 Version 21H2) like 3 weeks ago there was nothing, no App Store, less telemetry (there is some but significantly less than on the "normal" Windows versions, but I reinstalled the App Store so maybe because of that) *Edited the wording It looks like this as a f…

Ok I have to check which version it was. I don't think it was IoT. I assumed the IoT one didn't have a GUI.

I will check which ISO it was and reply back here because I'm very curious now too.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#392

Post by NovaPenguin »

RulerOf wrote: post #256
NovaPenguin wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I argue that one of the best things that the Free/Libre software developer community can start doing is optimizing for lower spec machines. Microsoft and Apple are either too closely nit or drectly provide hardware to be prolonging the liftime of hardware they sell. In optimizing open OS's it can prolong the life time of hardware by a significant margin and it means that lower in come folks are not left i…

>This is why I argue that one of the best things that the Free/Libre software developer community can start doing is optimizing for lower spec machines. But isn't the primary application for these machines going to be the web browser, which is pulling in so much JS insanity that the web sites won't render well anyway?

Yeah, that is unfortunately a big part of it. Via NoScript I generally run the web very lean but there is only so much one can do.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#393

Post by NovaPenguin »

duskwuff wrote: post #237
NovaPenguin wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I first saw it running on a Geforce with 64MB of RAM. Even then it was smooth as butter. Now that I think about it, Mac OSX was doing GPU compositing back in 2000/2001 and those machine usually only had about 16MB of VRAM. I remember it running fairly well on a 2005 MacMini G4 with 32MB of VRAM.

The first versions of Mac OS X only supported software rendering. GPU compositing didn't show up until 2003, in Mac OS X 10.2. It was branded as "Quartz Extreme".

I did not know that! There was about a 6-7 year gap between 1997-2004 where I didn't really do much with Mac's. But your timeline seems spot on, it was 10.3 when they introduced Expose into the system. A great demonstration of the GPU functionality in action.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#394

Post by NovaPenguin »

vbezhenar wrote: post #276
NovaPenguin wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My go to on this was I remember running Debian on a Pentium 166 with 32MB of RAM back in 98/99. It would boot to the desktop only using 6MB. It wasn't flash but it could handle the basics. Heck Windows XP would boot to Desktop using a little under 70MB. But this isn't just Windows, currently I am on Kubuntu 22.04 and it is using about 1.5GB to get to the Desktop! Yes it is very smooth and flash but it seems like a bi…

Minimal debian on VM eats something like 20-40 MB of RAM. Not 6 MB, but still rounding error by today's standards. I guess that with careful selection of GUI components one can fit empty desktop to 60 MB. Until you start browser anyway.

I guess nowadays it is a choice, back then it was all we had! :D

But good to know that we can still 'Hyper-mile' our OS.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#395

Post by npteljes »

qwezxcrty wrote: post #347
npteljes wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows activation is a simple thing. You need a KMS emulator, and you need to point your Windows to that. If you don't want to set up your own emulator, you can just search the internet for emulators, and point your Windows to one of those. This is what most activators do anyways. But running your own is also easy, if compiling and running a software is easy for you. I personally use vlmcsd.

I'm fully aware of the KMS stuff and how it works. But there are windows editions that are not licensed by and cannot be activated with KMS. I don't think there is any public way of pirating them apart from finding a working MAK key. No one seems to have digged into the SPPSvc and the internal working of Product Policy. (If you find something interesting that I missed, please let me know) Unlike usual Enterprise edit…

I just realized that you asked to activate a specifically non-kms version. Sorry, must have been tired.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#396

Post by weinzierl »

nine_k wrote: post #114
weinzierl wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me also the Commodore came to mind. It had 64K RAM and a 64K address range, because other things had to fit in there not all RAM was usable at the same time. Clock frequency of the PAL model was 985kHz (yes KILO), so not even a full MHz. Yet, I could do * word processing * desktop publishing * working with scanned documents * spreadsheets * graphics * digital painting * music production * gaming (even chess) * pr…

Sure, Commodore could do all that! But if you had to use that software now, you'd say (justly) that it's extremely basic and limited, and that interoperability with other systems is not great. What can be done ≠ what's comfortable to use.

Fully agreed. When I tried my old Commodore a while ago I couldn't stand the 50Hz screen flicker for long. Unbelievable that back in the day I spent hours on hours in front of that stroboscope.

For me it's more about the excitement that the bright future lay ahead of us so clearly mixed with a slight disappointment that I sometimes feel we could have made more out of it.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#397

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #239
abraxas wrote: post #6

Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. Anyone here remember when QNX shipped a demo in 2000 with a kernel, GUI, web browser and an email client on a single 3.5” floppy? The memory footprint was also a few megabytes. I’m not saying we should be staying within some miserly arbitrary constraints, but my goodness something that draws UI and manages process…

2GB is a ridiculous amount of memory for something like an OS. When we see egregious examples like Windows, then it's arguable having constraints might be desirable. It is well-known that "limitation breeds creativity". It's certainly true outside of "tech" companies. I have witnessed it first hand. "Tech" companies are some sort of weird fantasy world where stupidity disguised as cleverness is allowed to run rampant…

Many of them do not need to turn a profit and a small number have insane profits due to lack of meaningful competition (cf. honest work). With respect to the later, it's routine to see (overpaid) employees of these companies brag on HN about how they do very little work.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#398

Post by blacklion »

inglor_cz wrote: post #333
blacklion wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It liberated you as developer. As developer, I could understand. As user I hate you. You never provide me as user with native experience via web UI. You use custom controls, which broke conventions of native controls a little bit there and here. You can not use full power of OS (YouTube or Spotify player doesn't pause itself when workstation is locked, my native player of choice does). You eat my resources. You canno…

Everything is a trade-off. If, as a developer, you have to spend ungodly hours on learning multiple UIs, you will have less time left for the actual business logic of your app. Which, from the user's side, means one of the following three: a) nice looking, but less capable apps, b) more expensive apps, or, apps that have to be paid even if they could be free in an alternate universe, c) limited availability - app X o…

If your application can be useful on different OSes (and now there are only 3 OSes in existence, as porting Desktop application on Mobile requires completely different UI and UX no matter what technology you use!), break it into business logic and UI and find partner or hire developer who love to develop native UIs for other OS. MVC pattern is old and well known (though not fashionable now, I understand).

OSS projects are completely different story, of course, no questions to OSS developers.

I prefer to pay $200 for native application than $100 for Electron one.

Oh, whom do I try to fool? Of course, it will be Electron app with $9.95/month subscription now :-(

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#399

Post by inglor_cz »

blacklion wrote: post #398
inglor_cz wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is a trade-off. If, as a developer, you have to spend ungodly hours on learning multiple UIs, you will have less time left for the actual business logic of your app. Which, from the user's side, means one of the following three: a) nice looking, but less capable apps, b) more expensive apps, or, apps that have to be paid even if they could be free in an alternate universe, c) limited availability - app X o…

If your application can be useful on different OSes (and now there are only 3 OSes in existence, as porting Desktop application on Mobile requires completely different UI and UX no matter what technology you use!), break it into business logic and UI and find partner or hire developer who love to develop native UIs for other OS. MVC pattern is old and well known (though not fashionable now, I understand). OSS project…

"break it into business logic and UI and find partner or hire developer who love to develop native UIs for other OS"

As I said in my previous comment, this is quite expensive, and people inside Silicon Valley rarely understand how cash-strapped the software sector in the rest of the world is. In Czech, we have a saying "a person who is fed won't believe a hungry one" and SV veterans that are used to reams of VC cash supporting even lossy businesses like Uber have no idea that the excess spending needed to hire another developer for several months somewhere in Warsaw or Bucharest may kill a fledgling or small company.

In this, the unity of the Web is a life-saver.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#400

Post by taskforcegemini »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #162
abraxas wrote: post #6

Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. Anyone here remember when QNX shipped a demo in 2000 with a kernel, GUI, web browser and an email client on a single 3.5” floppy? The memory footprint was also a few megabytes. I’m not saying we should be staying within some miserly arbitrary constraints, but my goodness something that draws UI and manages process…

> Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. I agree and I find the apologists to be completely wrong. I run a modern system: 38" screen, 2 Gbit/s fiber to the home. I'm not "stuck in the past" with a 17" screen or something. The thing flies. It's screaming fast as it should be. But I run a lean Debian Linux system, with a minimal window manager. It's defi…

38" doesn't say anything though, what matters is the resolution. smaller screens at same resolution gets you more ppi.
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