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Kanye West is buying Parler

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#391

Post by sangnoir »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #318
Joeri wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be free speech absolutist, but I am not any longer, especially when it comes to social media. The argument in favor of absolute free speech for me was basically “let everyone hear everything and make up their own mind”. This presumes that people are swayed by the content of an argument. This is a false assumption, people are mostly swayed by the volume of the argument. This is well documented in psychologic…

To those who espouse the idea that comments should be filtered for the greater good, I say 'You first.' There was a time period when the left was for free speech and the right was wanting to constrain it. Maybe its just a giant pendulum - there is no right/left difference when it comes to free speech - everyone wants to censor / filter the speech of the opposite side. If things come in cycles, then I expect the right…

> There was a time period when the left was for free speech and the right was wanting to constrain it.

When was this - and can you give examples of left and right acting the way you described in the past?

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#392

Post by VikingCoder »

seanw444 wrote: post #377

Hey guys, I have an idea: why don't we try building free-speech protocols rather than free-speech platforms? Humans are fallible. We like to think we could build something where people can talk freely, but if the ability to censor something we don't like is presented, at some point nearly everybody will take that action because they personally deem it necessary for some greater good. Ultimately, protocols that cannot…

"true free speech" is not something that is free of problems.

Child Porn, Revenge Porn, National Defense secrets leaking, instructions for Chlorine Gas masquerading as instructions for making Play-Doh, libel and slander, weaponized disinformation, doxxing, harassment, threats of violence.

I get there are advantages to avoiding censure, in many extremely important situations.

But don't pretend like it doesn't also hurt people.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#393

Post by anoonmoose »

P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul wrote: post #320
taylodl wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and these Parler people are scamming him - that's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. My first thought on hearing this news was so what? I don't care about Parler or Kanye West, but if Parler is taking advantage of Kanye's mental decline then that's next-level awful. Like I said, I'm no fan of Kanye, but that's horrible to take advantage of people like that.

Is Elon Musk being scammed by Twitter? Same situation. Can't a rich dude buy a company without goofy rumors being spread (scammed into buying Parler)? Having a celebrity owner increases the value.

Kayne isn't being scammed by Parler. He's being scammed by Candace Owens, whose husband owns Parler.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#394

Post by dcow »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #378
davewritescode wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early Kanye West brought a lot of attention to social issues through his music and was one of the first hip-hop artists to publicly advocate for acceptance of gay folks in hip-hop culture at a time when gay slurs were very common. His first album was downright wholesome as far as hip-hop and there's a reason he was so beloved. He's been on a long, slow, downward trajectory with his mental health since the death of hi…

I don't feel that's particularly incompatible with anything I said.

GP is simply offering some context since you said you don't know Kanye at all and have only encountered him recently. It was never intended to be incompatible.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#395

Post by commandlinefan »

awb wrote: post #379
mrtksn wrote: post #11

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your ri…

> Yet again, I like that Musk and Kanye kind of people claim that they want free speech because at least we can hold them responsible when they don't deliver it. Really? They've never defined free speech, so how can we hold them accountable? The idea of a "free speech absolutist" is a complete joke destined for legal consequences. For example, I don't think they mean free speech is the ability to post obscene content…

> the ability to post obscene content, threats, state secrets, corporate IP, or any other legal restrictions

Free speech opponents always like to point to these examples when the topic of free speech comes up, but I've never seen free speech advocates use an example of any of these as examples of problematic censorship - instead, they (we) point out voluminous examples of unfashionable opinions being removed. In fact, if Kanye or Musk came out and said "free speech except for" and listed your (specific, easily definable) examples, I'd still agree with them that they were advocating for free speech.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#396

Post by mikkergp »

detaro wrote: post #330
P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Elon Musk being scammed by Twitter? Same situation. Can't a rich dude buy a company without goofy rumors being spread (scammed into buying Parler)? Having a celebrity owner increases the value.

I don't think Kanye West saying that he suffers from bipolar disorder is a rumor.

Not that it makes it better, but Elon also said he suffered from bipolar disorder.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#397

Post by seanw444 »

mariusor wrote: post #352
seanw444 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's not free speech. The whole point is that there are not restrictions. If it's restricted, it is by definition not free. "Free speech" is a cool buzzword people think they can qualify for (or wish to), without the ramifications of true free speech (hurt feelings, bad ideologies being discussed in a positive light).

Freedom of speech is not a buzzword, it has a pretty good definition in the declaration of human rights and on Wikipedia: > Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations or boundaries to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, hate speech, classified information, copyright violation, trade…

You're right. Companies have the right to censor things they don't like on their platforms. That's why people should stop using platforms that are frequently censored if they really care about "free speech." Just like how people can't "free loiter" on my personal property if I want them out of it.

I don't care about an arbitrary definition of two strung-together words, whose definitions individually, are absolute. When combined, their definition is just as absolute. The speech must be free. Free is simply defined as free. Not "free, but ..." in which case it is no longer just "free speech."

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#398

Post by jimbob45 »

tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

To be clear, he's saying that it felt like everyone already had their message about Uvalde coordinated before the Uvalde event had fully come out in the news to the point where even The Gap, a store as removed as possible from being a news organization, had a message prepared. That feels different than "people at the Gap knew about Uvalde". Is that still an insane thing to say?

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#399

Post by dudeinjapan »

I'm gonna be a contrarian here and say I'm genuinely excited to see what Yeezy does with the platform, assuming its not just a passing interest. For all his antics, his work in music and fashion is legit, and those two are a large reason people are on social media today.

If we required artists be 100% free of mental illness, we would not have Van Gogh, Georgia O'Keeffe, Kusama Yayoi, Michelangelo, Brian Wilson, etc. Let him be him, enjoy what he creates, and take it all with a grain of salt.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#400

Post by LatteLazy »

kbelder wrote: post #328
LatteLazy wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance: I thought you could basically say/post anything on Twitter as long as: * it was not actively illegal (CP, terrorism etc) * hacked info * deadnaming trans people Is that not the case anymore?

That is not the case, and hasn't been for years.

I read the rules and the Wikipedia page and that's all I can find. What else is there?
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