Wtf is "unhoused".
Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
391–400 of 770 posts
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#392It feels like having a way for them to transfer the Obamaphone numbers would solve this, and probably some related issues.
Since I've been able to keep the same number through various phones and Sims, this seems technically possible.
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's because the majority of homelessness is an issue of mental health. This isn't true or at least it doesn't start that way. What people don't understand is that there isn't a single homeless population. You have people who are temporarily homeless and people who are chronically homeless. The temporarily homeless are people who lost jobs, fell on hard times, etc etc. The simplest solution for them is yes to give…
We're pretty good at getting the temporarily homeless into housing. Obviously any improvements are good, but fundamentally the issue is with the chronically homeless who often have other factors going on.
> We're pretty good at getting the temporarily homeless into housing.
I’ll take tautological statements for $200 please Alex
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is a better answer than it first appears. Initiatives at for profit corporations will always exist within some business constraints, shareholder obligations, and so forth. It would be very reasonable for governments to provide tax-supported digital services. I could easily imagine that spending a few dollars per year to provide the homeless with basic digital services would pay off simply in easing admin…
>But we don't do it, because, in America, our sense of what government can or should provide is atrophied, and we, mistakenly, look to private actors to provide basic public services. I don't think this matches reality. The US government is doing more today than any time point in the past. Spending and taxation as a percent of dgp is at an all time high. There's also a sense that nobody should have to do anything the…
That's fair that I shouldn't make such an unqualified statement.
While public spending as a % of GDP has indeed increased, that's primarily driven by two things: increased defence (and related) spending, and increased spending on health costs.
In the US, the growth in social assistance spending over the last 3 decades is driven almost entirely by the latter: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-expenditure-as-per....
At the same time, we continue to believe in privatizing basic government services: outsourcing social assistance to charities (including religious charities), outsourcing military and intelligence functions to mercenaries, or, on point for this thread, outsourcing ID verification to VC-funded private startups.
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problems are downstream of that. Not having 2FA is going to allow some portion of users to get hacked. When those users do get hacked they will need a way to regain control of the account. Methods of regaining access to an account are notorious for bad actors social engineering their way to gaining control of accounts. 2FA relieves some of that, because even if you do get hacked you can provide a token from the a…
> Not having 2FA is going to allow some portion of users to get hacked. When those users do get hacked they will need a way to regain control of the account. I don't think they do! This would be part of the tradeoff. Currently, people who cannot use or rely on 2FA are getting locked out of their accounts even if they weren't hacked and knew their password! Isn't that worse?
What, how?
I got "hacked", I mean yeah it was a hack using an Android phone and Google's automated recovery system.
If not for the latter, my incredibru strong password would've saved me.
They also removed the phone and backup email from that account because I recovered the account once.
I sure hope 2FA cannot be removed once someone gains access (not without a call to the 2FA number/whatever) lol.
Either way, I'm not using it because it's a pain in the ass. I already hate that they lock me out if I try to log in from another country.
Gee, yeah I travel between EU countries, that's very unusual for most people.
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What ends up happening is they generally just destroy the living space in a variety of ways. Citation very much needed here. This certainly does happen. But, I don’t believe this the general (i.e. typical) outcome. From what I understand talking to acquaintances who work in this area, wrecking the place is not the typical outcome. And property damage is generally cheaper to address than the constant provision of em…
At least a data point here - my city of Austin is buying a hotel to convert into housing for the homeless. This has gone badly. The property sees intense vandalism and destruction, the neighbors are afraid for their safety, and the whole thing is an amazingly expensive boondoggle. [0]: https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-hotel-purchased-homeless-s... [1]: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/16/austin-homel...
That's a bad example. The unoccupied hotel was vandalized before the homeless were moved in. Yes, it a boondoggle, but nothing to do with homeless.
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Actually giving homes to the homeless would probably be cheaper than whatever we are doing now, even taking into account the mental illness and drug-abuse problems that factor into this. This point is worth reiterating. Homelessness can be solved by providing housing. Yes, homelessness is a complex multi-faceted problem, but the first order solution to the problem is to provide housing. Homelessness is a problem wi…
> Homelessness can be solved by providing housing. They used to be called asylums, and the problem is what to do if the homeless person refuses to go. I wonder why you don't hear about homelessness in totalitarian states...
Heh, well homeless people are voluntold to gtfo the streets and go to a homeless shelter or get a fine or jail time in Europe...
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#398Your phone number is also your permanent cross-app tracking advertising identifier.
This is why every app and vendor asks you for it.
I change mine every 90 days.
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
Look, I'd love to fix homelessness in America! Really, I would! But Google's policies are causing people to get locked out of their accounts now , today. Google could put a toggle in Google Account settings titled something like "Allow anyone who knows my password to log in to my Google account (less secure)." It could sit above a description of the risks involved. It would need to be disabled by default, and it woul…
This is a result of taking a product made by someone else for a certain purpose and then using it for one it isn't intended. Its not Google's fault gmail is a bad fit here. They didn't design it with this use case in mind. The solution is to use one that is. Why are case workers directing the homeless to setup gmail accounts? Because they haven't been provided with a better solution by the system they work within. So…
Should users with poor vision also have to use a special blind-person email provider? Because, I'd expect supporting screen readers to take significantly more effort than adding the setting I outlined.
Also, if I was homeless, I wouldn't want my email address to indicate I was homeless.
I broadly agree that it isn't Google's job to cater to everyone, but in this instance, the ask seems overwhelmingly reasonable—and less than what we expect in other circumstances.
Re: Gmail 2FA causes the homeless to permanently lose access 3 times a year
#400I can definitely understand not realizing that you could lose access to your account if you lose your phone number. But once it happens the first time, could you not pick any free email that does not require 2FA, and warn fellow homeless to avoid gmail? I disagree with the idea that because a very, very niche audience is in dire straits that the design decisions should be based on their needs. The forced 2FA system h…
> I can definitely understand not realizing that you could lose access to your account if you lose your phone number. But once it happens the first time, could you not pick any free email that does not require 2FA, and warn fellow homeless to avoid gmail?
Almost every free email service I've tried now requires a phone number to setup. Even protonmail required it for a brief while, although they now are back to captcha and a stern warning. I actually can't think of another free service besides protonmail that this isn't now true for.
An annoying trick some of them use is to allow you to setup the account and then lock it some time later. I've seen on immediate login (irritating waste of time) or after you've used it for awhile (what you used the account for is now held hostage unless you cough up a phone number).