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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

391–400 of 817 posts

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#391

Housing in the US has gotten to where it is due to horrible laws effectively allowing total tax avoidance for landlords. Take some investment property. You buy it at some basis price, let's say 500k. You rent it out for 15k a year. Each year you can offset your rental income against deprecation of the property and property taxes - meaning, you pay no income tax on your rental income. ~30 years later, you've deprecate…

Taxes have nothing to do with insane rental prices. It is zoning that favors single family homes.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#392

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Break out what "homeowners" actually is. It's increasingly becoming these shell companies and entities like Blackrock. We need to ban that shit immediately. The deed of a house should have a fucking person's name on it, not a company's.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a mortgage calculator: https://www.google.com/search?q=mortgage+calculator 500k property at 2.75% is $200k down gets you under 15k (this is very similar to my current mortgage) Now you're going to object that the interest rate isn't that anymore, which is irrelevant. There are numbers that will work which are simply an example to illustrate how depreciation works, and you just don't like the arbitrary scenario…

Where on earth can you find a 2.75% rate?

Between banks and with very large real-estate purchases, it's still a thing. Before the rate hike at the end of last year, you could get it from many places. My wife and I happened to buy a home in ND last year.

Here's a mortgage statement from US Bank showing the rate: https://imgur.com/a/Nq597zF

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#394

Have we considered just building new cities? It would be cool if the state could run a contest, have a rural county sign up to reform their zoning laws, and in exchange receive 100 year tax relief guarantees from the state to build a new city. America used to build new cities from scratch all the time up until WW2. This creates competition between cities (new entrants) resulting in better policies all around. And the…

I wouldn't be surprised if Musk tries this. Seems like there's some land in Idaho or around that part that he could move all his companies to and his cult of personality might follow.

That sounds nice, but I have 0 faith in any of the big entrepreneurs out there to successfully run this. It will end up like that one Disney-run town in the 90s: corners cut everywhere, residents with 0 representation, just a mess all around. The fact remains is any company making a town/city will want a tangible return on it, and that fundamentally conflicts with how a municipal government is ran.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#395
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds reasonable to me, but it didn't stop the cost of used cars from skyrocketing during the pandemic, due to the supply-chain-induced shortage of new cars. When the car market started looking a lot more like the housing market, so did its prices.

In that situation, the value of all cars went up, both new and used. The value of a used car was still much less than the value of a new car, you just didn't notice this because new cars didn't have their prices raised to correspond to the increased value.

New cars did sort of have prices raised, because most of the incentive programs stopped. The 5-year zero interest financing, the thousands of dollars of rebates, the negotiating the dealer was willing to do, all ended. New cars sold at sticker price and there was no shortage of buyers.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#396

A couple ideas for how to fix some real estate problems: 1. A zoning rule that requires home owners to live in the owned home. This would prevent remote/foreign money from meddling with local housing in particular areas, and prevents big corps from buying up all the homes and forcing people to lease them out. Some people want to lease though, so that's why I think it's more appropriate as a zoning tool for particular…

> unoccupancy (is that a word?)

Not really. Try using "vacancy" instead.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people do not want to own a home I hate to go all "citation needed" on you, but I'm not sure this is true. Do I want to pay for upkeep of a property? Probably not. But since renting is basically equivalent to burning money in our economy, any responsible renter will eventually feel a pull towards ownership if only to stop the bleeding. I think we need a society where renting isn't so expensive AND owning a pro…

How many college students want to bother with owning a home for The number of people that end up never owning or wanting to own a home is likely small. But there is a very real case for non-ownership depending on what stage of life people are in and how they want to live their lives.

The even easier argument is how many college students and new grads can afford to buy a house? Subdividing property that people can't afford is a valuable service.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#398

Housing in the US has gotten to where it is due to horrible laws effectively allowing total tax avoidance for landlords. Take some investment property. You buy it at some basis price, let's say 500k. You rent it out for 15k a year. Each year you can offset your rental income against deprecation of the property and property taxes - meaning, you pay no income tax on your rental income. ~30 years later, you've deprecate…

Really the only problem here is the step-up cost-basis at death that you mention. This is indeed a big problem, and the fix is simple: Your heirs inherit your cost-basis as well (likely $0), so that when/if they sell it they have to pay taxes on the whole capital gain. We could also force the payments over some years, by increasing the cost basis and taxing on that amount. e.g. I inherit a property worth $1M and zero cost basis. After one year, I have to pay capital gains taxes on $100k, but my cost basis also goes up by $100k. Repeat each year up to $1M.

The other stuff (depreciation, 1031 exchange) are very sensible accounting. Depreciation applies only to the improvements (buildings) on the land, not the value of the land itself. This reflects genuine loss of value over time (buildings wear out). And in the event that you sell the property at a profit down the road, you have to pay back all that tax savings at higher regular income rates (not lower capital gains rates). This is called "depreciation recapture." So depreciation can defer taxes, but not eliminate them.

Likewise, when you do a 1031 exchange, your new property ends up with a lower cost basis based on the previous property, so that when you later sell it you still have to pay all that capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It defers but does not reduce or eliminate taxes.

Of course - if you die while holding these properties, then your heirs get the cost basis reset ("stepped up"), which does indeed eliminate all these taxes. This is what we need to fix.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#399
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people do not want to own a home I hate to go all "citation needed" on you, but I'm not sure this is true. Do I want to pay for upkeep of a property? Probably not. But since renting is basically equivalent to burning money in our economy, any responsible renter will eventually feel a pull towards ownership if only to stop the bleeding. I think we need a society where renting isn't so expensive AND owning a pro…

> I hate to go all "citation needed" on you, but I'm not sure this is true. Given the number of people that rent in large cities all over the world for their entire lives, I don't know why you would find my claim doubtful. Many people seem to want to live in large, densely populated areas, and for most people that is always going to mean renting. > Much like freedom of car-free movement, housing ought to be a fundame…

Condo model ownership is very common in dense urban areas. You "own" your apartment, and pay an association to manage the repairs and upkeep of the common building and amenities.

That said, renting in the short term is still something people will want to do. Some people will even want to do it longer term, if they want no responsibilities at all for repair and upkeep or freedom to leave with no strings attached at the end of the lease.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people do not want to own a home I hate to go all "citation needed" on you, but I'm not sure this is true. Do I want to pay for upkeep of a property? Probably not. But since renting is basically equivalent to burning money in our economy, any responsible renter will eventually feel a pull towards ownership if only to stop the bleeding. I think we need a society where renting isn't so expensive AND owning a pro…

How many college students want to bother with owning a home for The number of people that end up never owning or wanting to own a home is likely small. But there is a very real case for non-ownership depending on what stage of life people are in and how they want to live their lives.

Not uncommon for parents to buy a house for their kid to live in, rent it to a few roommates to cover the mortgage, then keep it as an investment or sell for a profit when the kid graduates.
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