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Part of my code makes Copilot crash

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Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#391

Post by throwaway290 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #388
pseudalopex wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Puberty blockers don't change gender identity in early onset puberty. Even removing sex organs doesn't change gender identity. David Reimer was castrated very young and raised as a girl. It didn't work. Similar treatments have been forced on intersex children. Some people say so many gender dysphoria patients taking puberty blockers choosing to transition proves puberty blockers make them want to transition. Maybe it…

> Some people say so many gender dysphoria patients taking puberty blockers choosing to transition proves puberty blockers make them want to transition These people do not address that: - People with gender dysphoria are disproportionately likely (though somewhat less than those who do take puberty blockers) to choose to transition without having taken puberty blockers, too, and - People with gender dysphoria who tak…

Fair enough. I still don't rule out the rise in xenoestrogens and such as playing a role, but I'm aware of reduced suicidality and that's obviously a good thing.

> People with gender dysphoria are disproportionately likely [to transition]

Which age does that typically happen?

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#392

Post by faeriechangling »

duskwuff wrote: post #267
kodah wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The answer is approved by Dave Cheney, he works at GitHub, and if you've ever attended one of his talks it's plain to see he's a very scrupulous person. I also don't think this is an example of Microsoft taking a side; rather I read it as them refusing to bat, which seems fine. What I would've preferred one of these threads to be about is how all of this works. Like, how do they post-hoc filter certain things…

Making Copilot stop in its tracks when it sees the word "gender" and refuse to continue until the word is removed is still making a statement. Refusing to bat would be treating "gender" as a meaningless token, just as if you'd typed "traqre" instead.

Yes but people haven't quite figured out WHY people should be offended at Microsoft for doing this, so it's quite convenient for them before people discover their reasons for being mad.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#393

Post by oars »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #305
onionisafruit wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren’t the only options. You can just let it suggest what it is going to suggest. Copilot is a product for adults who should be able to comprehend what machine learning is. Anybody who throws a fit about it will only be exposing themselves as a fool.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/microsoft-shuts-down-ai-chatbot...

Didn't know about this. Thank you for making my day. (Disclosure: I used to work at Microsoft)

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#394

Post by throwaway290 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #361
Akronymus wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thars a very different usage than the one I am talking about. I am talking about using it on transgemder individuals to block normal puberty, until after it wouldve been over normally.

It's rare for someone taking puberty blockers to be undecided still when puberty would be over. How old is too old? What would be not proper? Where did you get this information?

> Where did you get this information?

About people taking puberty blockers to block normal puberty as part of hormone replacement therapy? The information is readily available, are you joking?

The other uses of these meds, ones that you are suggesting, is not what this discussion is about at all. You are being willfully ignorant of the context.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#395

Post by lmm »

mlyle wrote: post #390
lmm wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if they're deeply uncomfortable with this, and would prefer you remember to use "they", you're not harmed and should defer. And what if I'm just as deeply uncomfortable with saying what they want me to say? Are we now a dictatorship of the most fragile?

Sorry, if someone doesn't like being called "she", and you really want to call that person "she" -- that's on you. You have other choices, after all.

My other choice is to lie, to willfully mislead whoever I'm talking to (probably a friend). Again, people might not like being called rich or privileged or out of touch, but we would never dream of saying this means you shouldn't call them that.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#396

Post by mlyle »

lmm wrote: post #395
mlyle wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, if someone doesn't like being called "she", and you really want to call that person "she" -- that's on you. You have other choices, after all.

My other choice is to lie, to willfully mislead whoever I'm talking to (probably a friend). Again, people might not like being called rich or privileged or out of touch, but we would never dream of saying this means you shouldn't call them that.

No-- most people understand how pronouns work now (and the rest are rapidly coming up to speed). It's only people who are deliberately insistent on misunderstanding that are mislead.

Just like the people mislead by 'decimate'.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#397

Post by lmm »

mlyle wrote: post #396
lmm wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My other choice is to lie, to willfully mislead whoever I'm talking to (probably a friend). Again, people might not like being called rich or privileged or out of touch, but we would never dream of saying this means you shouldn't call them that.

No-- most people understand how pronouns work now (and the rest are rapidly coming up to speed). It's only people who are deliberately insistent on misunderstanding that are mislead. Just like the people mislead by 'decimate'.

No, absent other context everyone will understand female to mean having typical female characteristics, almost by definition. Calling someone who is unlike a female in most ways "she" is deceptive even if you consider it "correct", in the same way as making a tomato dish and calling it a fruit salad.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#398

Post by mlyle »

lmm wrote: post #397
mlyle wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-- most people understand how pronouns work now (and the rest are rapidly coming up to speed). It's only people who are deliberately insistent on misunderstanding that are mislead. Just like the people mislead by 'decimate'.

No, absent other context everyone will understand female to mean having typical female characteristics, almost by definition. Calling someone who is unlike a female in most ways "she" is deceptive even if you consider it "correct", in the same way as making a tomato dish and calling it a fruit salad.

> No, absent other context everyone will understand female to mean having typical female characteristics, almost by definition.

As we've talked about a whole bunch in this thread, language can-- and does-- evolve.

The pronoun thing isn't fixed within extant human cultures. Our language can evolve as mores do.

And, yes, people are occasionally confused by various kinds of new usage, but overall people keep up.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#399

Post by lmm »

mlyle wrote: post #398
lmm wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, absent other context everyone will understand female to mean having typical female characteristics, almost by definition. Calling someone who is unlike a female in most ways "she" is deceptive even if you consider it "correct", in the same way as making a tomato dish and calling it a fruit salad.

> No, absent other context everyone will understand female to mean having typical female characteristics, almost by definition. As we've talked about a whole bunch in this thread, language can-- and does-- evolve. The pronoun thing isn't fixed within extant human cultures. Our language can evolve as mores do. And, yes, people are occasionally confused by various kinds of new usage, but overall people keep up.

There's no "keeping up" with an unnatural category. It's like the "international except Taiwan" example I gave earlier - the language is forced and artificial and always will be, because it doesn't reflect the underlying reality that these people would be in the other group if you put the boundary in the natural place.

Re: Part of my code makes Copilot crash

#400

Post by mlyle »

lmm wrote: post #399
mlyle wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, absent other context everyone will understand female to mean having typical female characteristics, almost by definition. As we've talked about a whole bunch in this thread, language can-- and does-- evolve. The pronoun thing isn't fixed within extant human cultures. Our language can evolve as mores do. And, yes, people are occasionally confused by various kinds of new usage, but overall people keep up.

There's no "keeping up" with an unnatural category. It's like the "international except Taiwan" example I gave earlier - the language is forced and artificial and always will be, because it doesn't reflect the underlying reality that these people would be in the other group if you put the boundary in the natural place.

> It's like the "international except Taiwan" example I gave earlier - the language is forced and artificial and always will be, because it doesn't reflect the underlying reality that these people would be in the other group if you put the boundary in the natural place.

If this were true, then we wouldn't have all the examples of languages and cultures that don't put it in that "natural place".

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