Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen) • Hacker News Board

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#391

Post by mdp2021 » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:30 PM UTC

arpa wrote: post #170

rexpop wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're responding to a comment which aims to make your same point.

in the world that has become a parody of itself it is not unfathomable that the GP post was dead serious.

Aside note, but: "Hear, hear!". Until years ago, I would normally use that kind of mockery of absurd ideas by reciting adherence to impossible beliefs and opinions, with the implicit that nobody would hold them unless insane, so of course I was being purely ironic.

I do not do that anymore. The world is clearly full of cases for which absurdities are tenable - not by an odd minority, but by "(pseudo)random people". If you declare them, the presumption of irony is gone.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#392

Post by TaylorAlexander » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #384

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be perfectly honest this feels like a knee jerk response that fails to engage with what I am saying. Nowhere did I say I am being prevented from forming a voluntary collective. But obviously if I believe we should form an economy comprised of many collectives then I need to discuss this idea with other people! I literally cannot form a collective by myself. For my part I am working on a career trajectory that will…

There certainly is no shortage of people who believe as you do in collectives. Go ahead and form one with them. > you want to argue without really thinking about what I am saying I've thought about it for many decades. I'm not trying to suppress your discussion, ideas, or any efforts you may make towards creating a (voluntary) collective. Feel free. BTW, I read somewhere that over 10,000 collectives had been created…

> There certainly is no shortage of people who believe as you do in collectives. Go ahead and form one with them.

It really feels like you are not reading my comments. I just said in the comment you are responding to that I am working on this, but it is a few years away. That is not to say I am not doing anything now, but I have to lay the ground work. For me to say I am actively working on this and to read your response as "go ahead and do it then" really feels like you do not want to engage with what I am saying.

> BTW, I read somewhere that over 10,000 collectives had been created in the United States. Where are they now? Oh, they all failed.

They all failed? Walter, I can easily find a long list of active co-ops just in the Bay Area alone. It seems to me you are speaking with authority on a topic you don't know very much about. https://www.cooperationrichmond.org/coop-movement/worker-coo...

That said, failures do happen. Lots of privately owned businesses fail too. Would you suggest then that privately owned business as a concept is not viable?

I think what you are missing is that people in today's economy are suffering, and people are desperate for something to change. I suspect you are doing okay, and not desperate for change. Good for you. But the number of people in your position is literally dwindling from a statistical perspective in the USA. For everyone else, they cannot just sit comfortably and dismiss suggestions on how to change things. They need change, as for many it is literally a life and death situation.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#393

Post by dang » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:33 PM UTC

UmbertoNoEco wrote: post #90

fancyfredbot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to pay them if you go steal them yourself. If you find it more convenient to pay another thief to do it for you then I don't think that's significantly less fair.

All those India/Malasya/Guatemala kids stealing a 200 USD PDE book from Pearson should go to jail... in America... Assange style

Could you please top posting unsubstantive comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot, unfortunately, and we're trying for a different sort of discussion here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#394

Post by TaylorAlexander » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:35 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #382

incompatible wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that you are free to share copyrighted information, even if you declare yourselves a voluntary collective.

You can contribute to your collective all of your property and intellectual property. I suggest you contact all like-minded authors and suggest they join your book collective and donate all their intellectual property rights.

You say this as if this forum is not an appropriate place to begin to make such contact. We must discuss with other like minded people the merits of sharing our work as open source, but when people try to do that here it feels like you are saying they should go somewhere else to do it.

And we can certainly discuss the merits of our government granting ever increasing copyright terms. Copyright is not a natural concept, but an artificial one created by government agents. Surely this forum is a good place to question those choices and discuss alternatives.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#395

Post by mdp2021 » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:37 PM UTC

dncornholio wrote: post #286

grumbel wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of ways. Limit playback only to official DRM-locked devices and have those devices film the user. The moment a camera makes it into the picture you block their account for life. That's not even new tech, 3D face detection is standard part of many smartphones and laptops. And companies like Facebook have no problem locking you out forever from their services, for much milder infractions. Or more pract…

Cinema rips were pretty bad even before cinema's started filming the audience.. Hardly worth watching. Other than that, all DRM does it makes it harder, not impossible, to copy.

«Cinema's started filming the audience»?! You sign some consent form? In which country?

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#396

Post by mdp2021 » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

natrys wrote: post #96

delusional wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't that what google books was supposed to be?

Does anyone know of a good FOSS alternative for google books that could be self-hosted (for personal library)?

One product could be "Ambar: Document Search Engine"

https://github.com/RD17/ambar

> Ambar is an open-source document search engine with automated crawling, OCR, tagging and instant full-text search

> *Easily deploy Ambar with a single docker-compose file; *Perform Google-like search through your documents and contents of your images; *Tag your documents; *Use a simple REST API to integrate Ambar into your workflow

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#397

Post by mdp2021 » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #369

SequoiaHope wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one would make money off of it. That is the point. There are innumerable things which are worthwhile which are not profitable. The idea that we do not do a world library of free digital copies of every book ever written really highlights the problem with the thinking your comment has demonstrated. The idea that individual pursuits must make a profit to be justified leads to us doing terrible things like: not makin…

Libraries these days also offer movies, music, and some even have games. Should digital versions of all that stuff be free for all as well?

Is there a good reason why not?

The broader class of cultural products includes different types of expression as subclasses: the discriminator is in the broader class - cultural products.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#398

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #392

WalterBright wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly is no shortage of people who believe as you do in collectives. Go ahead and form one with them. > you want to argue without really thinking about what I am saying I've thought about it for many decades. I'm not trying to suppress your discussion, ideas, or any efforts you may make towards creating a (voluntary) collective. Feel free. BTW, I read somewhere that over 10,000 collectives had been created…

> There certainly is no shortage of people who believe as you do in collectives. Go ahead and form one with them. It really feels like you are not reading my comments. I just said in the comment you are responding to that I am working on this, but it is a few years away. That is not to say I am not doing anything now, but I have to lay the ground work. For me to say I am actively working on this and to read your resp…

> I can easily find a long list of active co-ops just in the Bay Area alone

A long list? A handful out of the zillions of companies in the bay area. It's statistical significance is zero. Some are charities, which are obviously not self-sustaining. I wouldn't be surprised if others were sustained by government checks. People start collectives in the US all the time, but the test is if they last. A typical collective seems to last about 2 years before imploding.

> Lots of privately owned businesses fail too. Would you suggest then that privately owned business as a concept is not viable?

Compare your list of a few communes with what's in the Yellow Pages for the area for the answer.

> I am working on this, but it is a few years away

While I wish you success in your endeavor, it's not really a collective unless you have other collective members signed up and collaborating with you. From much personal experience, I can attest that announcing one is working on something doesn't mean anything to anybody. It only matters if you've got something to deliver. I know that sounds harsh, and it is, but that's how things work.

> what you are missing is that people in today's economy are suffering, and people are desperate for something to change

I understand very well that they are suffering. They are suffering as the result of leftist government policies, not capitalism.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#399

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 10:22 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #394

WalterBright wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can contribute to your collective all of your property and intellectual property. I suggest you contact all like-minded authors and suggest they join your book collective and donate all their intellectual property rights.

You say this as if this forum is not an appropriate place to begin to make such contact. We must discuss with other like minded people the merits of sharing our work as open source, but when people try to do that here it feels like you are saying they should go somewhere else to do it. And we can certainly discuss the merits of our government granting ever increasing copyright terms. Copyright is not a natural concep…

I'm sorry if you inferred I thought your posts were inappropriate here. I do not think such, and it is not my intent.

Have you heard from any?

> copyright terms

I have a history here of advocating short copyright terms. I speak as someone who made a living selling copyrighted materials. The stuff I write today is all released under the Boost License, which is as close to public domain as it gets (because some countries have no legal concept of public domain).

I also have a history here of dispensing with patent laws, even though I hold some patents.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#400

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 10:23 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #369

SequoiaHope wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one would make money off of it. That is the point. There are innumerable things which are worthwhile which are not profitable. The idea that we do not do a world library of free digital copies of every book ever written really highlights the problem with the thinking your comment has demonstrated. The idea that individual pursuits must make a profit to be justified leads to us doing terrible things like: not makin…

Libraries these days also offer movies, music, and some even have games. Should digital versions of all that stuff be free for all as well?

What are the benefits vs. deadweight losses of a copyright-maximalist regime?

Who benefits? Who loses? And to what extent?

And what would the net total cost of rectifying any shift of advantage to a copyright-minmalist regime be?

For that last, look to the net total annual revenues of commercial media.

And keep in mind that we're carrying out this discussion on a technological ecosystem founded in very large part on FSF Free Software / Open Source software.