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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

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Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#391

Post by noveltyaccount »

freemint wrote: post #354
noveltyaccount wrote: post #168

Framework team, I know you hang out here... I'd love a touchscreen+stylus digitizer model with 360° hinge. My Lenovo yoga need a replacement!

Digitizers are really expensive. I am not sure if Framework is big enough to handle this. Just buy a snall wacom tablet and put it next to the laptop that also works.

That is definitely not the same thing as being able to reach up & touch the display, or flip the display 360 degrees into "tablet mode" :) Maybe I'm a minority in liking a laptop to be able to do those kinds of things.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#392

Post by csdvrx »

pedrocr wrote: post #370
csdvrx wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yep, same here. And with increasing urgency as Thinkpad quality control seems to have fallen off a cliff. Not really, they are among the rare laptops to still offer S3 for Linux. And the X1 Fold is a technical marvel (working on Linux support right now, if I'm successful it may become my next toy device to try to use Linux on as a daily driver) > Framework seems uniquely positioned to fix this though. Someone just…

> Not really, they are among the rare laptops to still offer S3 for Linux. The features are great but my complaint was about quality control. My T460s has had every single part but the chassis replaced, some multiple times, and still failed. A new T14s had to have the keyboard replaced because it randomly missed keystrokes. It then started having the screen randomly start flickering after resume. A new X1, top of the…

> A new X1, top of the line 4K spec, has the internal screen randomly lose sync. The days of Thinkpads as dependable machines seem gone.

I believe it's all due to the large hardware and firmware changes.

Take for example USB-C: we don't know yet how to make study ports. My X1 had its motherboard replaced due to a dead port.

Or look at ACPI S0ix: it's only since last year that it's become comparable to S3 in power consumption (and S3 is no longer officially supported since Intel 11th gen)

The keyboard too changed: the layout is the same as the xx30 series, but there's less travel.

Likewise, the screens are now 2k or 4k with thinner bezels, and intel HUD ("Xe graphic") is quite different from the previous generations: even if it's handled by the same i915 driver on Linux, GUC/HUC are more important, and disabling PSR no longer makes sense.

Change is constant, but I believe pre pandemic and post pandemic Thinkpads are very different beasts.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#393

Post by ripley12 »

pizza234 wrote: post #150

Alder Lake is still not fully supported by Linux (improvements are coming with v5.18¹, which is not stable yet, and it will take a while to be released into several linux distros (at least the Ubuntu based)). It's a shame, because it would have been a great moment to offer an AMD alternative. ¹= https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/intel-thread-director-c...

Things are fine on Linux even without Thread Director support. I've been running Fedora 36 (kernel v5.17) on a 12900K for a few months now without any noticeable issues.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#394

Post by imilk »

favadi wrote: post #247
pkulak wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible for an OS to support fractional scaling properly; just tell applications to render their windows 1.5 times larger, map the inputs properly, and turn off font anti-aliasing. The problem is that it requires every app to be updated, which hasn't happened everywhere yet. Android and iOS, for example, do it perfectly. So does ChromeOS.

Sadly, Linux doesn't support fractional scaling properly. This is a show stopper for me.

Fractional scaling works pretty seamlessly for me using Pop OS on a Framework.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#395

Post by jameshart »

natosaichek wrote: post #382
jameshart wrote: post #368

Ohhhhh that's why there was a spate of projects posted last week about building computers based on framework mainboards - submarine marketing for this framework upgrade launch. Figured it was framework behind it somehow, but the fact that it's to promote the 'here are some ways to use your old mainboard once you upgrade' angle makes a ton of sense.

Yeah - whenever somebody makes a good thing and people use it in cool ways, that's submarine marketing for that thing.

Sure, it's entirely a coincidence that both https://github.com/brickbots/framedeck/ and https://github.com/penk/MainboardTerminal published 10 days ago, and they're both referenced in this framework announcement. Convenient for Framework that those two projects came out right before their upgrade launch!

But I don't just have my own innate cynicism to go on here! The framedeck project write-up actually contains this disclosure:

   As they were preparing this documentation release, they emailed me to see if I'd be interested in a collaboration of sorts. They would provide one of their laptops and some additional modules for me to build something unique with the only condition being that I released the designs for public use.
Which is fine! This is earned media - Framework got some people to make and open source some cool designs. I wasn't sure, last week, why they were doing that now in particular. Now I know why they're pushing that angle, and it makes sense.

Goodness, people are touchy.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#396

Post by gigatexal »

doyougnu wrote: post #340

I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks. I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to…

The new revision with the 12-gen chips does it fix the complaints people have had about loud fan noise?

I am super on the fence between this and an arm mac - this is super customizable but the arm chips in the air are silent — no fan.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#397

Post by bigpeopleareold »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #298
Goronmon wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently received my first framework laptop after being a loyal Thinkpad user for years. I get excited about different laptops occasionally...and then I remember that I won't have a trackpoint if I switch to a different brand, and I get disappointed. Literally happens every few months.

Same. Everytime I get excited about Framework, Syste7m6, etc... and then get sad. I fully understand I'm a vanishing minority, But trackpoint is such a productivity booster for me, and makes such amazing use of space in a laptop format, that it's a must-have (and again, I fully understand that those who don't use Trackpoint will have no comprehension of what am I going on about; I'm a grouchy quirky old man :). Then…

I taught myself just last year to use the trackpoint because I was curious. I turned it off at the BIOS, etc. just to make me use it exclusively. Once I got over the hump, I was surprised. I don't want keyboards anymore without it. I developed a strong muscle memory for it over the year. I'm a grouchy quirky old man, but when it comes to trackpoints, I am new to this quirk :D

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#398

Post by kouteiheika »

sascha_sl wrote: post #213
quantumfissure wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better power handling per performance ratio, at least when compared to previous Intel generations. Better integrated graphics, especially with the upcoming line, if what AMD says holds true. Non-toxic approach to business. Dr. Lisa Su has done incredible things with that company, and I'll happily support a group that recognizes the need for experience in top tech positions vs. MBAs/Lawyers/Fund Managers/etc...

> Non-toxic approach to business. Unfortunately it seems the pendulum swings on this one at least a bit. Unless you want a flagship CPU, you'll wait a good half year to a year to get half as much choice of budget CPUs with rather extreme handicap (cache). Also half of them are OEM only. Try to find a good current gen CPU for a small to mid sized NAS in their lineup, it's not easy.

> Unless you want a flagship CPU

Even if you want a flagship CPU; e.g. see the newest 5xxx series Threadrippers which were only released after a year and half and even then they are only available in overpriced e-waste systems from Lenovo where the CPU is locked down to the motherboard and won't work anywhere else.

AMD is not your friend. Just like every other huge corporation.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#399

Post by the_pwner224 »

acomjean wrote: post #335
NikolaNovak wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Everytime I get excited about Framework, Syste7m6, etc... and then get sad. I fully understand I'm a vanishing minority, But trackpoint is such a productivity booster for me, and makes such amazing use of space in a laptop format, that it's a must-have (and again, I fully understand that those who don't use Trackpoint will have no comprehension of what am I going on about; I'm a grouchy quirky old man :). Then…

When I was at IBM I had a mouse with a trackpoint for scrolling. It was pretty great. I miss being able to move and scroll at variable speeds. https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=12... and a paper: https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/a/pdf/Zhai%20scro...

It's not the same, but the Logitech MX Master is basically the current version of this.

It has two scrollwheels, one for vertical and one for horizontal. They have some interesting tech in them. When moved slowly they click with detents, like normal scrollwheels. But when you move the wheels more quickly they "unlock" to spin freely, you can scroll at a pretty high speed and with good accuracy.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#400

Post by jenaimarre »

dorfsmay wrote: post #198
komadori wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to pile on, I would love to buy a Framework laptop instead of more ThinkPads, but I really can't do without a pointing stick keyboard. I even have a Tex Shinobi* for my desktop! I hope that Framework or a 3rd-party accessory can fill this gap in the market. * https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi

To pile on even more... A lot of Linux users used to buy ThinkPad because of the Linux compatibility, the modularity and the build quality, but got addicted to the trackpoint, and this has become the only reason we keep buying them. A competitor would be very welcomed!whoever is going to take that market will have followers for a long time.

Piling up to the pile, the lack of trackpoint is what prevents me to buy a framework laptop. Please :-)
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