Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#391

Post by ThalesX » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 11:57 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #375

holoduke wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly any euro state has real power when it comes to real decisions. Most of the euro states are politically heavily influenced by financial injections from the US. Military bases everywhere. US companies everywhere. All tech is dominated by the US. Of course Russia sees the US as the master country and euro countries as their puppets.

If you really want to go down that road, it's Russia's gas that runs eastern Europe, not US cash. Yet still, Germany tells Russia where to stick it. This is quite clearly not an economic decision.

> If you really want to go down that road, it's Russia's gas that runs eastern Europe, not US cash.

Imports of Russian gas (in billion cubic meters) as of 2020:

- Germany (42.6)

- Italy (29.2)

- Belarus (18.8)

- Turkey (16.2)

- Nertherlands (15.7)

- Hungary (11.6)

- Kazakhstan (10.2)

- Poland (9.6)

- China (9.2)

- Japan (8.8)

Oh how our East European borders have grown...

This is going to come off as agressive and whatever but I just really wish people like you that don't have any idea what they are talking about would just shut up already and stop polluting the internet with unfounded opinions.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#392

Post by chrisdhoover » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 1:07 AM UTC

barrenko wrote: post #300

mnadkvlb wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. but existance of leaders like Gerhard Schröder displays a different story. (he is sitting on russian gas companies’ boards, after heavily going against nuclear). No shit the leaders failed the country for their own gains, seems like.

The incompetent and the corrupt and more often than not the same person.

I think you just made a statement that should be repeated often and attributed to you. Barrenko’s corallary or something. Somebody help me with the name. I want see this used and a Wikipedia entry on it

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#393

Post by Tagbert » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:15 AM UTC

blub wrote: post #303

throwaway5752 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be fair: this was a massive, strategic aim of the Russian state. Germany didn't randomly fall into this situation, there has been decades of influence, bribery, and espionage in Germany to develop that dependency. Kids may need to be reminded that Germany has only been reunified for 32 years and Berlin was divided from the USSR controlled East Germany by a physical wall. Russia is is so motivated to expand its…

When you put it like that, one almost has to feel sorry for Germany, bravely fighting influence, bribery and espionage every step of the way only to fall prey in the end to the Russian state which maliciously supplied the German industry with gas. But this is not at all bad for the US, it’s great! Russia is isolated and weakened and the EU is strangulated by yet another wave of refugees and weakened economically, bec…

The US would definitely prefer that this invasion not happen. It destabilizes too much of the world.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#394

Post by riedel » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 2:30 AM UTC

someguydave wrote: post #383

blub wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is used firstly for heating, then in the chemical industry in Germany.

heating with electric powered heat pumps would be way more efficient

Actually you do not need nuclear for this. The problem is not nuclear here but to that Germany messed up setting up a fiscal mechanism trying to boost renewables (by introducing the so called EEG Umlage). The problem is that electricity (even green) was more expensive than it needs to be (particularly compared to gas) and the incentives were fading to invest into renewables. Nuclear power is no option in German simply because we could not reach any national consensus about the waste which would be a prerequisite.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#395

Post by hello_hn_ » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 3:04 AM UTC

thriftwy wrote: post #310

nautilius wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did the East Germans do that their fellows in the U.S./British/French occupied zones did not do?

Their own 80286 clone?

No post body was provided.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#396

Post by rfrey » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 3:25 AM UTC

diskapital wrote: post #266

rfrey wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask a question, then immediately assume the answer and draw conclusions based on that answer. I dispute that this is just something you like to think about ("Just asking questions here...") or that you are not pushing an agenda.

I beg forgiveness if my question and thoughts on the matter are somehow perceived as an agenda. I haven't studied the Gazprom case carefully, but after all, the title of OP's article is "Germany has seized control of Gazprom", not Germany has lawfully taken over management of Gazprom assets after a protracted court case establishing ownership and takeover processes, so am I really at fault for drawing conclusions bas…

Perhaps I was too harsh, and you are not a native English speaker? "Seize" simply means to take control. The second definition in Miriam Webster is "to take control by legal means".

Police seize drugs, for example.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#397

Post by neilwilson » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 4:36 AM UTC

yywwbbn wrote: post #339

neilwilson wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they need to 'pay debts'? Russia has just had its foreign reserves frozen. Those are debts too, which the West has repudiated. Why shouldn't Russia do the same in reverse? Countries export solely to gain imports if they have any sense. If there are no imports to be had - due to sanctions - then there is no need to export. Far better, from Russia's point of view, that the oil is left in the ground, and the work…

If those workers are fine with a substantial fail in their QoL. It’s gonna be most painful for the oligarchs and people in their environment who are used to consuming massive amounts of foreign goods. Btw even the USSR which was generally much more autarkic couldn’t survive without foreign currency for energy exports. What makes you think modern Russia could? Also it was illegal for workers to leave Russia back then,…

"It’s gonna be most painful for the oligarchs and people in their environment who are used to consuming massive amounts of foreign goods."

If 'tax the rich' works and reduces the power of the rich, then hasn't the West just taxed the rich of Russia and reduced their power to remove Putin?

Democrats can't have it both ways. They propose a billionaire tax in the USA to reduce the power of the rich to interfere with people in charge, then actually implement a billionaire tax in Russia and expect it to increase their ability to interfere with people in charge. It's an illogical position to hold.

"Btw even the USSR which was generally much more autarkic couldn’t survive without foreign currency for energy exports. What makes you think modern Russia could?"

If there are sanctions in place, what are they going to spend the 'foreign currency' on?

You can't eat dollars.

"so assuming there are countries willing to accept them they might be more likely to choose that"

The 'leave for other countries' is a globalist position. Most ordinary people are rooted in social support constructs on the ground. They don't leave, and prefer their own country.

In fact the attitude to those who leave from those who remain is likely to be good riddance to bad rubbish.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#398

Post by ivan_gammel » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:21 AM UTC

belorn wrote: post #388

ivan_gammel wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That gas, oil and coal are means for missiles and hired mercenaries. Russia is not a banana republic where you could possibly find the direct link between the export revenues and military expenses. This is not how Russian economy works, the picture is much more complicated. First of all, the revenue from oil and gas sales is collected in foreign currency. Russian budget receives the money in taxes paid by exporters,…

> Russian budget receives the money in taxes paid by exporters That is incorrect. The oil and gas companies is owned by a few oligarchies with direct ties to Putin and the Russian government. Based on what secret service and other agencies has leaked, there isn't a major difference between what is the Russian government, what is controlled by Putin, and what is owned by the owners of the oligarchies. To a degree they…

>> Russian budget receives the money in taxes paid by exporters

>That is incorrect. The oil and gas companies is owned by a few oligarchies with direct ties to Putin and the Russian government… …To a degree they operate just like a banana republic in this aspect.

This is just generic description of corruption, but you forgot to explain where I was wrong. Take, for example, Novatek - if you think its profits are funding the war, how do you think this cash reaches the army?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#399

Post by mort96 » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:31 AM UTC

petre wrote: post #350

timeon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bordering countries like Italy and Greece were becoming overwhelmed by migration wave. They were crying for help for quite some time til anyone even noticed the problem. So to ease the pressure there was plan to redistribute them in to EU. This was refused by several countries so 'Merkel' took some of them to Germany. It was not ideal but better then nothing. That crisis was caused by instability in Middle East. Whic…

She should have thrown money and equipment at the problem like the US does. That works most of the time. When it doesn't, let French diplomacy handle it. Or even better, just do both at the same time. Italy and Greece, just take this money and patrol ships and do coastal patrol. Hungary, just take this money and build a barbed wire fence, if you think it works. Border states were guarding the Schengen Area dreamland.…

Building barbed wire and stronger coastal patrols doesn't help you take in more refugees. Getting more countries to accept refugees helps take in more refugees.

But I suppose you solution is to just kill all the refugees by letting them drown or whatever. Which, I suppose, is one way to solve a perceived "refugee crisis", but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#400

Post by maxhille » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 7:06 AM UTC

cjrp wrote: post #114

pjc50 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another. (Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)

Surely Germany's a big enough (and sparsely-populated enough) country that wind farms can go somewhere without complaint?

As a German who loves hiking, let me tell you that you can not go more than 5kms without hitting a village, town or highway anywhere in this country. I am truly envious of having wilderness around like in the US or northern Scandinavia.