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FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

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Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#391

Post by viraptor »

jaguar1878 wrote: post #244
tombert wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About two weeks ago, I got a letter from the IRS telling me that I owe an extra eight-thousand dollars from my 2020 return, with a $1000 fine and $200 interest as a result. [1] I'm not mad about owing the money, but what annoys me is if they have enough information to know that I underreported, then why am I part of this equation to begin with? Clearly they have enough of my tax data to know I screwed up, so why don'…

As others have noted, the IRS doesn't know everything, and some things may be to your advantage to report to them. They could send you a bill and ask you to fix it, but many people wouldn't know where to look to find mistakes. For example: RSUs and NQSOs (employee stock grants) are in my experience handled extremely poorly by default. If I have RSUs vest when the stock is worth $10 a share, then I pay income tax that…

> They could send you a bill and ask you to fix it, but many people wouldn't know where to look to find mistakes.

Then people in that situation can do it from scratch like they're already required to do now. This is really not an issue anywhere else - this change wouldn't make the process harder for anyone.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#392

Post by gpm »

Docket for the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63193711/federal-trade-...

Dang - it might be nice to include this in the "Related" comment pinned to the top, it's just the "level up in the filesystem" above the courtlistener link you already have in it.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#393

Post by creakingstairs »

exolymph wrote: post #356
creakingstairs wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've even done a pilot program that literally did what you wanted. [1] And yes, it was much better experience: > Almost all participants said that they would opt to use the service the following year. And yes, as you have said, the answer is lobbying. > Tax preparation services strongly opposed ReadyReturn and have lobbied against its expansion. [1] https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-was-exper... .…

The podcast might have been Planet Money: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/epis... Priceonomics wrote an accompanying article: https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t...

Thank you, it was! The accompany article is really good, but it is also really depressing to read too :(

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#394

Post by quantified »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #371
randmeerkat wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s crazy is that unreasonable taxes is one of the main reasons _why_ the British settlers rebelled against the Crown and went on to found America. The fact that nearly 250 years later we have an absurd, convoluted tax system, that literally requires specialists and companies with absurd market caps, for example Intuit has a $137B market cap, shows just how broken the system has become.

The central problem is the refusal of US governments (state & federal) to pay people money to do things they want to encourage rather than give them tax credits and whatnot.

Well, Intuit lobbying/bribery has a lot to do with it in the last couple decades.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#395

Post by meshaneian »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #390
btgeekboy wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a nice, if overly simplistic sentiment. It’d be nice if my 1099s were electronically filed with the cost basis. But they’re not. So the IRS, every year, thinks I’m going to owe way more than I do. The IRS also has zero idea about the $4000+ of sales tax deductions I’m filing for this year. And finally, if you do get it wrong, you don’t go to jail. They send you a CP2000 letter. (Remember those 1099s? I forgot on…

I agree. The IRS definitely does not know how much I owe each year. However, they do have an estimate and the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. So I think it's reasonable to suggest it ought to be provided. I think the strongest counter-argument against this approach is in regards to bad actors and who discloses first. If you're thinking about hiding income and the first step is the government telli…

I like this argument more knowing it circles back to the "guess what the IRS knows" game earlier. :)

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#396

Post by dominostars »

tombert wrote: post #261
rootusrootus wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's the first time you've screwed up the return, you might try calling them and ask to have the penalty waived or reduced. That works pretty often on first-time penalties.

You know, it didn't even occur to me to try that. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

It's called a "first time abatement": https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

General penalty relief: https://www.irs.gov/payments/penalty-relief

I just went through this for an honest mistake as well, though I didn't qualify for a first time abatement. It took months to get a response as well.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#397

Post by fnord77 »

zw123456 wrote: post #271

A few years back I got audited, and it was called an "electronic audit" by the IRS. Which basically meant that they had their computer systems scour a bunch of the bank records and discovered that I had forgotten to claim a 1099 for some contract work I had. OK, so they sent me a computer print out and they had cross checked everything on my return electronically, my property tax deductions, my stock dividends so on…

> just run that thing and send it to me and I can file an exception if there is something on it I disagree with.

basically how it works in Sweden

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#398

Post by quadrifoliate »

Arubis wrote: post #274

Many users of this site aren’t especially price-sensitive; if you’re one of them and in the habit of using tax filing software, I urge you to consider hiring an accountant for your taxes. You’ll pay a couple hundred bucks, which may be offset by the CPA finding deductions or credits that your software didn’t highlight, and that money goes to someone you’ve picked out and hired rather than a corp that’ll use your mone…

What are some concrete examples of these deductions that people keep talking about? I'd actually like to know, so I can perhaps convince myself to get a CPA next year. The only deductions I have seen as a salaried person with some minor stock trades are things for home heating credits and such which I am always ineligible for on the basis of income.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#399

Post by adfgadfgaery »

anitil wrote: post #362
rootusrootus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank Grover Norquist for that. Arguably he has had far more effect on this than the pittance Intuit has spent buying politicians.

What did Grover Norquist do (not-American here)?

Grover Norquist wants to cut government spending. It's difficult to do that directly because people often like government services. Instead he suggests cutting taxes. This is easier to sell to the public because no one likes paying taxes. This will drive the government into debt, forcing spending cuts due to the risk of default. This plan is called "starving the beast".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

For this plan to work, people have to really hate paying taxes. So, despite the fact that Norquist and his allies often talk about things like "reducing the burden on the taypayer", they have in fact acted to make paying taxes as unpleasant an experience as possible. This means deliberately underfunding the IRS and ensuring filing taxes is slow, complicated, and expensive.

He is also the architect of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, which is endorsed by the vast majority of Republican politicians currently in office. The pledge prohibits them from supporting any legislation that would increase taxes on people or corporations. The idea of "starving the beast" has been endorsed in as many words by a number of politicians, including George W. Bush.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform#Taxpa...

Any time a Republican politician starts talking about reducing the deficit, know that they are lying. Over 95% of them have publicly signed a pledge meant to deliberately increase the deficit. This isn't a conspiracy theory. The plans are public.

Re: FTC sues Intuit for its deceptive TurboTax “free” filing campaign

#400

Post by quadrifoliate »

drdec wrote: post #147
jfengel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you made under $100,000 from salary and don't otherwise have any complications (like dependents), a form 1040EZ really is simple. There's no reason to use software for that. It's quite straightforward. If you have deductions, stock sales, a nanny, a business, etc then you need the regular 1040 and various schedules, and those are all complex enough that you'd probably benefit from software. It's not absolutely req…

FYI, the 1040EZ form no longer exists. It was eliminated in the name of simplifying the forms (don't ask me how that's supposed to work).

> the 1040EZ form no longer exists

That is wild. I remember using it for my first job, and yep, it took me all of a few hours to fill it out by hand and mail it in.

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