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Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

reuters.com

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Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#391

Post by d0gsg0w00f »

PierceJoy wrote: post #319
d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No vaccine = no work = no food = die I'd call that "force" even if it's 2 degrees removed.

You do know that the vast majority of jobs in Canada do not require being vaccinated, right? Did you know that vaccine requirements for certain jobs have existed for decades, and no one has lost their minds like this? Do you think it’s possible that right wing politicians are purposely trying to cause outrage over something that has been a normal and accepted practise in order to further their political goals?

It's called a career because you do it your whole life and you keep getting paid more money to do it. What are other job options for truckers? Fast food? Warehouse? It's not like you can just go get a SWE job.

Yes, but you agree to that mandate before getting the job. When you join the Army you know you're selling your body to the state.

Of course politicians are politicizing. But they're just riding the wave of something that people are already mad about--like higher taxes and abortion. Your comment makes it sound like people are mindless automatons whose opinions have no substance. They are opinions that differ from your own but that's OK. We need both sides of the discussion for a healthy democracy.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#392

Post by chr1 »

8note wrote: post #315
chr1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have several groups of people who distrust and dislike each other, and you start using your business as a means to support the fight of one group against the other, you only increase the enmity between the groups and harm all businesses by starting a process that forces everyone to choose which group to support. It does not matter whether the reason for initial distrust is religion, ethnicity, race, sexual o…

This is not to say that businesses should not do this, only that they have to position themselves to profit from this change in the market. Selling to both sides can be a profitable venture, which encourages neutrality, but so is locking in customers by something other than the quality or price of your product

I am saying that if we condemn such behavior in all cases (even when neutrality is violated in our favour) we'll reduce the situations when that second strategy becomes profitable, and that will benefit everyone. We don't even need a very large percentage of people for this, even a relatively small group that always supports neutrality will be enough to keep the market neutral.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#393

Post by seized »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #356
PierceJoy wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your only taking away someone’s livelihood if being an unvaccinated trucker is their only option. The vast majority of jobs in Canada do not require a vaccine. Choices have consequences. Mandatory school vaccinations, mandatory military vaccinations, mandatory drug testing in many jobs, etc. Why did no one lose their minds over those things?

This vaccine uses a different technology than all previous vaccines. It bears almost nothing in common technologically with previous vaccines. As such extra skepticism is permissible.

A year or more ago, sure, a bit of skepticism is fine.

At this point it's been well shown that it's safe and that being unvaccinated is much more dangerous.

Time to grow up.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#394

Post by gjsman-1000 »

PierceJoy wrote: post #389
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This vaccine uses a different technology than all previous vaccines. It bears almost nothing in common technologically with previous vaccines. As such extra skepticism is permissible.

This is just vaccine misinformation. Anti vaxxers will already have some excuse for why "this" vaccine is different.

This is scientific fact. mRNA is completely different in operation than older degraded-virus vaccines, and to say otherwise is misinformation.

The only things they have in common is the name and the end goal.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#395

Post by throwawaysea »

jtbayly wrote: post #330
PierceJoy wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine isn’t being forced on anyone. Body autonomy is no more being violated here than any other time in history where vaccines have been required to do certain things, of which there are many examples. Not to mention, all the things you listed at the start of your comment have been done by the Ottawa occupiers. I don’t like to call them truckers because most are not, and most truckers are against this occupatio…

Really? They've attacked police and burned people's homes? Seceded? I've not been following the news much, but I haven't seen this.

I haven’t seen any evidence of the Canadian truckers doing anything egregious or blatantly illega.

However here are example sources I just found from a few Google searches for what I saw from BLM protests in my city (the grandparent comment):

https://clashdaily.com/2020/11/seattle-blm-activist-arrested...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protes...

https://komonews.com/news/local/police-spokesperson-accuses-...

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2021/06/17/five-years-m...

https://www.the-sun.com/news/910187/security-guard-seattle-p...

https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/seattle-blm-protesters-demand-...

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/ix9bwy/black_liv...

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#396

Post by ratsmack »

tomohawk wrote: post #235
defaultname wrote: post #198

This sort of discussion never goes well, but using GoFundMe to finance occupations, especially across national borders , is an incredibly dangerous game. If a GoFundMe to harrass and harangue Ron DeSantis -- to effectively sponsor people to park outside his home and blast horns, among other things -- would he be okay with that? How about if Canadians paid millions for people to park on US interstates? Is that okay? T…

I'm glad the governor is looking into this. Undoubtedly there are FL residents who contributed to this worthy cause via GFM, and then to have GFM suddenly say they're going to redirect the funds? Seems like some sort of fraud to offer a service for one thing and then change it after money has changed hands. GFM obviously realized this was a problem, so changed their minds and is providing automatic refunds. But this…

I would think that every GFM campaign is approved by default once the money starts flowing in. To change it after the fact should be seen as a criminal act.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#397

Post by blast »

PierceJoy wrote: post #352
blast wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, the convoy was sparked by a decree that truckers crossing the US/Canada border would have to either be vaccinated or go into 14 days of quarantine. The latter would effectively take away the livelihood of anyone whose job involved doing that frequently. I don't think it's very useful to argue that taking away someone's livelihood isn't "force", or to argue that people are just "choosing" to lose t…

Your only taking away someone’s livelihood if being an unvaccinated trucker is their only option. The vast majority of jobs in Canada do not require a vaccine. Choices have consequences. Mandatory school vaccinations, mandatory military vaccinations, mandatory drug testing in many jobs, etc. Why did no one lose their minds over those things?

I think you've effectively conceded the point here. Losing one's job is generally understood to be a catastrophic outcome for people in our society, especially when someone has been doing that job for a long time (and perhaps also doesn't have the educational level to get another job at anything close to the same compensation). It follows that "do X or you're fired" is a form of force or coercion. In fact that's so obvious in general that to narrow the definition of "force" to exclude it seems to be a case of special pleading. Threatening someone with a severe material consequence and then saying "it's not force because it's your choice" isn't an argument most people are going to accept, and I find it interesting that you're resorting to it, because it's surely not the strongest argument for your position.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#398

Post by PierceJoy »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #345
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define “forced.” Your answer will speak volumes.

Okay, you’ve defined forced elsewhere: “That is not being forced. That is called choice. Choices have consequences.” That’s literally forced but in an nonviolent matter. Kind of like how people can be correctly be called “forced” to file tax returns in the US. They are forced, stop playing word games.

I'm not familiar with the US tax laws, but in Canada if you don't file a tax return and don't owe money, there are no consequences. If you owe money, and do not pay, eventually you will end up in jail. That's actually being forced, and makes this a terrible analogy.

If someone is fired from the military for not getting a non-covid vaccine, are they being forced to get the vaccine?

They are not being forced. Stop playing word games.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#399

Post by FpUser »

PierceJoy wrote: post #319
d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No vaccine = no work = no food = die I'd call that "force" even if it's 2 degrees removed.

You do know that the vast majority of jobs in Canada do not require being vaccinated, right? Did you know that vaccine requirements for certain jobs have existed for decades, and no one has lost their minds like this? Do you think it’s possible that right wing politicians are purposely trying to cause outrage over something that has been a normal and accepted practise in order to further their political goals?

>"You do know that the vast majority of jobs in Canada do not require being vaccinated, right?"

Well suddenly vast majority now does require COVID vaccination. It is forced even on people that never show up in the office. So if I were you I'd come up with some better arguments to advance the agenda.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#400

Post by gjsman-1000 »

seized wrote: post #393
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This vaccine uses a different technology than all previous vaccines. It bears almost nothing in common technologically with previous vaccines. As such extra skepticism is permissible.

A year or more ago, sure, a bit of skepticism is fine. At this point it's been well shown that it's safe and that being unvaccinated is much more dangerous. Time to grow up.

It is not scientifically possible to show that any substance is completely safe after one year. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you something.

There are countless compounds (mercury, lead, smoking particles) which take years to show their harm and were once considered safe by science.

Do I think the vaccine will join those ranks? No, but I don’t want to oversell it’s safety either.

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