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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

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Re: No Way to Grow Up

#391

Post by quadrifoliate »

orangecat wrote: post #316
quadrifoliate wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many person-hours of lost productivity is there for each day a classroom is closed? At least a hundred per classroom, more than a thousand for each day a school is closed. I think I must have missed the point at which classrooms took on a responsibility for parental productivity? If so, does parental productivity also fall drastically during summer when schools have holidays? Stresses by the pandemic itself hav…

I think I must have missed the point at which classrooms took on a responsibility for parental productivity? Because child care has long been part of the value proposition of public schools. It's amusing how "you shouldn't have had kids if one parent wasn't willing to stay at home full time" is now something that the far left and far right agree on.

> It's amusing how "you shouldn't have had kids if one parent wasn't willing to stay at home full time" is now something that the far left and far right agree on.

I consider myself somewhat left wing, and I don't agree with this statement at all. Cooperative babysitting, more flexible work arrangements, larger friend groups, joint families, and more social cohesion in general are a good way to balance childcare.

I actually agree that teaching can provide some part of this, but don't understand the fact where everything else runs according to a hyper-capitalist algorithm, but teachers are expected to take on outsize responsibility and risk adverse healthcare outcomes because "Think of the children".

It does take a village to raise a child. Let's do that, and not just leave it to two parents and a teacher.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#392

Post by dcolkitt »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #280
ianbicking wrote: post #239

I'd love to see an emotionless cost-benefit analysis of different approaches to handling schools in the pandemic. I suspect the cost of closed schools far exceeds what we intuitively think, since it's not just the educational loss now, it's the cost of future mitigations due to the problems we're causing, and a large cost of lost productivity by parents. How many person-hours of lost productivity is there for each da…

> How many person-hours of lost productivity is there for each day a classroom is closed? At least a hundred per classroom, more than a thousand for each day a school is closed. I think I must have missed the point at which classrooms took on a responsibility for parental productivity? If so, does parental productivity also fall drastically during summer when schools have holidays? Stresses by the pandemic itself hav…

Salaries aren’t determined by essential-ness, they’re determined by supply and demand.

Obviously a nursing home aid is a lot more “essential” than a FAANG engineer, but the latter is paid substantially more. It sounds flowery and noble to pay people based on how “important” their jobs are to society. But it’s simply no way to run an economy.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#393

Post by johnla »

ilteris wrote: post #367

I don't give a shit what the article says or specifically points to but I can tell you this much. I am a dad of a 6 year old. My kid goes to public school in NYC and last year was bad... They did a test at the beginning of this year before the start of the first grade and her results were awful. This is an unprecedented event and everyone is clueless including in education. I don't make a big deal about the test resu…

My kids are in NYC public schools too. My 3rd grader opted into the state assessment tests. They release the scores with breakdowns how the kids do by grade and school. This time they didn't. I'm pretty sure it's because of how terrible the results were that it'd be a scandal.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#394

Post by elpakal »

biscottigelato wrote: post #383
khazhoux wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Im equally as fascinated by parents who find masking their children to be totally fine. It's not "totally fine." We're all tired of the masks, sure. I just don't think they're actively harmful. > They don’t really have a say in this and I don’t believe for one second that kids would rather wear a mask than not. Heh, I don't have to tell you, I'm sure, but there's a lot of things kids would rather not do.

Anyone that is in a situation that is trying to establish new relationships with people and understand each other emotions during so in as contentious a situation as figuring a new person out would have found a mask hugely inhibiting. Grown-up that have never change their social circles for year will not be able to empathize. Nomads definitely do and understand what kids have to go through as they are trying to navig…

Exactly. I volunteered at my son’s kindergarten class one day and saw how difficult it was for them to interact with each other let alone pronounce words. I was not the same dad after that.

I’m curious if the parents of young children that feel masks are NBD have spent time in the classroom.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#395

Post by ilteris »

johnla wrote: post #393
ilteris wrote: post #367

I don't give a shit what the article says or specifically points to but I can tell you this much. I am a dad of a 6 year old. My kid goes to public school in NYC and last year was bad... They did a test at the beginning of this year before the start of the first grade and her results were awful. This is an unprecedented event and everyone is clueless including in education. I don't make a big deal about the test resu…

My kids are in NYC public schools too. My 3rd grader opted into the state assessment tests. They release the scores with breakdowns how the kids do by grade and school. This time they didn't. I'm pretty sure it's because of how terrible the results were that it'd be a scandal.

bingo

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#396

Post by Wowfunhappy »

superfrank wrote: post #18

I'm not sure I like this article. They seems to overstate what the sources they link to claim. For example the article says > Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances. But when you go to the study they link, it says > Although school closures reduce the number of contacts children have, and may decrease transmission, a study of 12 million adults in the UK found no diffe…

I think you're focusing on the wrong sentence in the cited article. It goes on to say:

> International modelling studies which estimate that school closures have a meaningful effect on reducing transmission rates are all confounded by the near simultaneous introduction of multiple interventions (including lockdowns, curfews, closures of bars and restaurants). Moreover, they do not account for indirect effects of school closures which prevent parents from working outside the home. A systematic review of observational studies showed that in those studies with lowest risk of bias, school closures had no discernible effect on SARS-CoV-2 transmission.

The title of the cited article is "Closing schools is not evidence based and harms children", which I think gives a pretty clear picture of the researcher's conclusion. And that in turn matches what the New York Times wrote: "Some researchers are skeptical that school closures reduce Covid cases in most instances."

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#397

Post by dcolkitt »

XorNot wrote: post #276
chmod600 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Everyone with children asks that question, because they see the damage happening. Some reach different conclusions about the trade-off, but no parents take your absolutist position that doesn't even question the damage.

I'm sure they do: and they do from the position of being able to talk about the consequences but not actually grok the consequences. You're doing it right here: think of the children! Well sure, but okay what about the teachers, the janitorial staff, the administrative staff? Schools aren't a machine children go into and then with no other inputs, education comes out.

Nobody is forcing teachers, janitors or administrative staff to keep working. If they find the risk personally unsuitable they’re free to find another job. Plenty of other jobs are hiring.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#398

Post by dcolkitt »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #149
_jal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There appears to be a weird blind-spot when discussing COVID outcomes - anything short of death appears to be discounted or ignored. So hospital issues, long COVID, etc. just don't exist, so catching it either didn't matter or you're dead. On a planet where that was true, that sort of reasoning would make sense. (As it does if you're trying to encourage other people to ignore risks.) What I don't understand is why so…

And also the abnormally high ratio of people who die within 1 year of catching Covid from other reasons: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-survivors... 233% increase in chance of death for people less than 65... 183% increase for people 65+: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2021.77843...

Correlation is not causation. Can you think of any confounding factors here?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#399

Post by honkycat »

And what is going to happen? Pass a bill to provide additional support to schools?

Hell, Anything? No. Nothing is ever done. Nothing ever happens except decay.

The United States is spinning down its governmental duties. The pendulum will swing right again, and that will be the death blow. They will continue to gut public and infrastructure programs. All 3 branches will finally truly be a jobs program for the upper class to suck the blood out of everyone else.

The roads will fall apart. Jails will continue to fill up. The homeless crisis will continue to not fix itself. Everyone but the most wealthy will live like dogs, and then obligingly die when they can't afford the "good" insurance.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#400

Post by MathCodeLove »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #213
jdminhbg wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is comparing the risk of death for people who are hospitalized to the risk for their age group, which is missing the major confounding factor that those who are hospitalized for Covid (especially in younger cohorts) are very disproportionately sick (from diabetes, obesity, immune issues from transplants, etc).

There's no evidence that Covid infects diabetics (or other "unhealthy" people) at a higher rate. Hospitalizes them, sure. The negative group should've had a correct proportion of "unhealthy" people. Again - even if it is only increasing chance of death in "unhealthy" people... It's still increasing chance of death!

Why do you keep putting quotes around "unhealthy"? If someone has diabetes they are, by definition, unhealthy.
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