Live data from Hacker News

We need to reclaim our attention

theguardian.com

391–400 of 458 posts

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't require algorithmic feedback loops. People simply would seek out (and create) content which provides inconsistent rewards. A slot machine simply needs a random number generator with a certain small chance of jackpot. The null model here is what can be achieved without individualization.

That doesn't mean it can't be optimized with algorithms. Obviously that's what they think they're measuring and doing, otherwise it would be random.

I'm not sure "randomness" is the general property, but rather unexpectedness. The content-provider may well be following a "formula" like with fiction plots, that give the protagonist setbacks and victories. Facebook uses approaches which try to profit within the constraints of a relatively small group of programmers trying to make money off billions of users. It doesn't mean these approaches are the best overall at serving the most desirable content to any given niche of users. Or even the best at making money qwithin those constraints. If are to believe in "network effects" (the other popular basis for calling for a breakup of Facebook) Facebook is simply succeeding because it is there first. Rather independent of this claim that they are winning by being the most competant.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#392
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely TV and radio also have algorithms behind them determining how to increase viewership. Facebook and Instagram do the same but in realtime with more knobs to turn. I personally don't quite understand how somebody can get addicted to social media but I understand video games and I would support some kind of government bureau that determines the addictiveness of a game and puts a label on it. For example games tha…

Chess is very addictive, and certainly endless. Same with cardgames. I'm sure your government bureau would quite grow fast, coming up with ever more warning labels.

Ahh yes Chess, well known for destroying concentration .. /s

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#393
post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't clear, I'm suggesting regulating nonviolent interaction is paternalistic, as is weaseling around it by expanding the definition of violence. I agree we shouldn't let people physically destroy internet infrastructure. I don't think this is controversial. I don't think we should regulate how people peacefully interact.

Why is "violence" your boundary? Most people agree that lots of things can be "bad" besides violence. There's a pretty broad consensus on that. You're going to need some pretty strong arguments to justify legalizing theft and fraud.

I'm not trying to justify legalizing theft and fraud - these are most generally justified by property rights, which are somewhat tangential here. Neither of them set a precedent for the government intervening in honest interactions between people. Lots of things are widely considered "bad", that doesn't mean it wouldn't be tyrannical to make them illegal.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this talk about "algorithmic feedback loops" is overselling the quality of said algos (eg. I get more interesting suggestions when I open YT incognito then I do when I'm signed in, I have to scroll through a bunch of stuff I have 0 interest on FB when I open it, etc.) and their importance. It's completely missing the actual attention grabbing factor here - there's a huge amount of content for consumption on deman…

"All this talk about "algorithmic feedback loops" is overselling the quality of said algos" So it's you agree that the villains are evil, but your defence for them is that they are inept?

So they will destroy attention even further once the bugs in the algos are tuned out?

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#395
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that "good, desirable or natural" are not real . They are not concrete things that we can derive from observations about the world. They are akin to religions beliefs. Reasonable people can hold opposing views, and there is no oracle to divine the one truth. Given this situation, the only reasonable way forward seems to be tolerance of the full diversity of belief, and refrain from imposing one's own beli…

Ethical nihilism is no basis for public policy. Your argument successfully justifies legal murder, for instance. Who are we to say that it's wrong?

If someone consents to be murdered, who are we indeed to stop them? My argument doesn't justify non-consensual murder at all however.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on the person. I am an avid gamer (have all consoles and a high end Pc) but despise all multiplayer games! I love RPG and strategy games… the less frenetic the gameplay the better! For me it’s all about the story, the immersion in a new world and the mental challenge! I don’t understand how people can waste time shooting around at random people!

I find the online games very addictive but for a lot of the time they aren't very enjoyable and then for a brief period they are very exciting (the adrenaline I'm speaking about). The game that resonated with me most emotionally was The Last of Us: Part 2 but I couldn't play it regularly or I think it would lose its charm. I generally feel quite conflicted about gaming because of this: there are games (like TLOU) tha…

I think you actually pointed out the true reason of the addiction! It’s the victory… the need to feel like you achieved something… the satisfaction of winning… it doesn’t matter if to get there it was a chore as long as you feel accomplishment! When I play I don’t look for victory… I look for entertainment (a good story, nice lore, good characters) and a challenge with myself! If the game is not fun all the time I just abandon it! My time is precious… and since I am content with my level of accomplishment in life I don’t seek validation in games! (Mind I do not imply you are not accomplished… it’s about self perception)

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to choose between horrible options is exactly the definition of freedom. Believe it or not many people would choose free destitution over pampered slavery. It is exactly the ability to make this choice, at the most extreme level, that should be respected. To take an maximal example: you should be able to sell your kidneys to fuel your heroin habit, for no other reason than because no one can claim more own…

If the two horrible options were free from context, sure. But that's hardly (if ever) the case. It is very convenient to start from a place where A has power over B, then say "B is free to choose whatever crappy options A offers, because... freedom".

We have to start from some place don't we? Even if we perfectly redistributed wealth tomorrow, we'd see billionaires in a generation or two.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#398
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ease of access of today's distractions leads me to disagree. It's so easy to take out your phone to check a social media app, or open a tab on your laptop to a social media website like Reddit, versus turning on a radio or getting up to turn on the TV. A comic book doesn't fit in your front pocket, but a phone does; there's just so much less friction for distraction today.

And still, very few people read social media till they sleep deprived themselves. Very few people end up yelling at everyone around when something does not work out in game. Both of these are fairly common for gamers, but computer games are always defended here. So yeah, it is pure moral panic, except about something average HN commenter does not think he do.

> Very few people end up yelling at everyone around when something does not work out in game.

I remember growing up many people's parents getting mad for weeks over football game outcomes they had no control over.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean it can't be optimized with algorithms. Obviously that's what they think they're measuring and doing, otherwise it would be random.

I'm not sure "randomness" is the general property, but rather unexpectedness. The content-provider may well be following a "formula" like with fiction plots, that give the protagonist setbacks and victories. Facebook uses approaches which try to profit within the constraints of a relatively small group of programmers trying to make money off billions of users. It doesn't mean these approaches are the best overall at…

Dono what's with your strawmen arguments here or what your point is besides being argumentative, but I didn't say anything about best. I'm gonna just assume they all see some value in it and you don't have any inside knowledge.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#400
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a complete solution, but I like to block the elements that are most distracting to me. www.youtube.com##.html5-endscreen .ytp-pause-overlay www.youtube.com###secondary

Does that actually stop the autoplay or just hide the countdown?

Neither.

If you use the toggle next to the closed caption to turn off autoplay, instead of playing another video the player will show thumbnails for other videos after the current one finishes. These filters prevent those suggestions from showing up, and you just get a black rectangle when the video is finished.

Post reply on HN