Is there room for those of us who believe the mRNA vaccines are effective at reducing transmission and severe disease yet don’t want to relegate our fellow citizens to second class status for not wanting to inject themselves with something they’re not sure about? We seem all too ready to ruin the lives of those who don’t want the jab.
Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
391–400 of 600 posts
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the rest of us also have the right to protect ourselves from them How does your right to protect yourself lead to a right to exclude someone else from society?
We have prisons - don’t we?
So you're willing to pay to keep anti-vaxxer's alive right? You're willing to pay for their housing, food, healthcare, etc. so long as you can keep them away from everyone else?
Honest question.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#393Quoted post unavailable.
Covid is now endemic - that is the scientific consensus. Are you suggesting that we permanently give up our right to decide what medications to take? Taking a vaccine is a forced medical procedure for the benefit of someone other than the individual. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, but I recognize that effectively forcing this upon people by denying them fundamental rights and services, is not ethical, and sets an…
Several vaccines are already mandated for a variety of travel to countries, jobs etc.
Covid is not new in that regard and all this nonsense about an “intolerable precedent” is ridiculous. The precedent has been around with us for a long time and we’ve been fine with it. The only reason this comes up now is because of increased visibility on it.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
Horrible logic. Seatbelts are in the same position. They are mandatory and greatly reduce harm done in an accident. Same thing for the vaccines, you won't die and won't likely be using an ICU bed that other patients need. Go spread your FUD elsewhere.
Seat belts shouldn't be mandatory either.
Seat belts and motorcycle helmets shouldn't be mandatory in countries that don't have public healthcare, but they should be mandatory in countries with public healthcare because everyone else is paying for your medical treatment and seatbelts and helmets reduce the cost of your medical treatment.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#395Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would say that there is not a single non-religious human being on this planet. Human rights are a religion - they don’t exist. We made them up so we can coexist; and so that we can improve the quality of our lives. What makes discrimination wrong is that it diminishes the well-being of the discriminated against. So you are welcome to insist that your well-being is being diminished by vaccine mandates but it would b…
Quoted post unavailable.
You seem to be struggling with the fact that objective morality is a social construct.
It's not about WHO makes the decision. It's about the inherent quality of the decision being made irrespective of who makes it.
Of course it's your choice to drive your car into a wall at 200km/h, but in the way society uses the word "objectively" and "true" it is objectively true that driving into a wall at 200km/h is detrimental to your well-being. And it is objectively true that in doing so you are making a bad decision.
In the same way that is objectively true that seatbelts save lives, it is objectively true that vaccines save lives. Therefore not doing what's conducive to your well-being is a bad choice.
The metrics, measurements and methods used to arrive at these conclusions are as objective as empiricism allows for.
>Those who don't want to vaccinate also choose to do so because it improves their well-being
Yes. They using the exact same words. Are you convinced by their arguments? I am not.
What I am convinced of is how intellectually dishonest they are in parroting words without bringing evidence to the table.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#397The problem in Canada is that the health care is so bad that people are worried that if something goes wrong you are screwed. My son broke his arm and he has to wait 3 weeks for a cast. I've been waiting for a general doctors appointment for 6 months yet, been waiting 4 years to have a compressed disc looked at. It's sad. To make it worse it's almost impossible to find the vaccine and when you do it's a several hour…
I live in the poorest province in Canada and this doesn't even happen here. You go to Emerg and you get a cast.
Canadians don't have to worry that if they get sick that they are 'screwed'.
If you haven't had a compressed disc looked at in 4 years, you're not trying. Even if you don't have a family doctor, it's not difficult to get referred to a specialist.
As for the vaccine, everyone is in a mad rush for it right now because of Omicron, so there is a delay. I live in the poorest province and made an appointment Thursday to get my booster this Tuesday. This is what I did last summer and they weren't run out when I got there.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a population they don’t work anymore. They need to produce an omicron-targeted vaccine. This current vaccine simply doesn’t work because it’s targets the wrong spike protein and it shows.
Can you define “don’t work”? The study I linked to shows some effect, even in omicron. I’m kind of confused.
Here is a definition of "work" form Portugal[1]
If you look at vaccine doses per person over time, and graph of cases per person over time, in one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, you see not only no effect, but the worst effect happening at the most-vaxxed time. If they stop transmission the effect at this point is miniscule. If you didn't label the first graph, you might be tempted to blame it for the second graph.
(nota bene, vaccines show a clear effect in reduction in death.)
[1] https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
Actually Denmark has even more vaccines, and an even greater case uptick: https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
Covid is now endemic - that is the scientific consensus. Are you suggesting that we permanently give up our right to decide what medications to take? Taking a vaccine is a forced medical procedure for the benefit of someone other than the individual. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, but I recognize that effectively forcing this upon people by denying them fundamental rights and services, is not ethical, and sets an…
Several vaccines are already mandated for a variety of travel to countries, jobs etc. Covid is not new in that regard and all this nonsense about an “intolerable precedent” is ridiculous. The precedent has been around with us for a long time and we’ve been fine with it. The only reason this comes up now is because of increased visibility on it.
The issue is much more nuanced.
I will gladly take an FDA approved vaccine like any other for such reasons.
None of the available ones right now are. Yes even Pfizer isn’t as the approved Pfizer vax (Comirnaty) is not the same exact vaccine as the one currently available/being used.
Edit: In short, many of us fear that the regulatory processes that govern our healthcare have been hijacked by corporate interest. We all know this leads to corners being cut as that’s inevitably how businesses are run.
Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your problem seems to be that you don't understand the concept of probabilities. Something can work 80-90% of the time, but not 100%.
And the greater problem with science communication regarding intramuscular vaccines, and the political theater surrounding it, is that neither "side" actually gives the full story because they worry nuance would be lost and facts without context used against them. Yes, intramuscular vaccines for sars-cov-2 work, for about 6 months, to significantly reduce the likelyhood of serious disease in the internal organs. They…
This is also why if one wishes to mandate weekly tests, those tests should be required of everyone, not just the unvaccinated. Mandating tests for just the unvaccinated is more punitive than scientific and doesn't slow the spread.