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Web3? I have my DAOts

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Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#391

Post by dmitriid »

Bayart wrote: post #385
dmitriid wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had anyone tried to convert those fictional tokens to actual usable money, you'd very quickly find out that the actual volume is about 0%.

Off-ramping is a non-issue. It's like saying the stock market is worthless because its value is predicated upon keeping capital tied into it. Really, you can extend the same reasoning to any market. It's fine being a nihilist, but not very realistic.

> Off-ramping is a non-issue.

It is. The moment any of those fictional tokens are used for anything other than meaningless exchanges with other fictional tokens, they are worthless. For now they are only perpetuating their perceived self-worth.

> It's like saying the stock market is worthless

Stock market is almost entirely worthless. It's the same speculation not rooted in objective reality.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#392

Post by koonsolo »

dmitriid wrote: post #381
darkFunction wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great! Hey look I would like to send you the rights to my crate of wine. You're the 1000th customer to my site. Or maybe you want to trade it for your in-game weapon. Or I just like you and it's a gift, anonymous internet user. Of course I could just transfer directly to your Ethereum wallet. But why do that when I could explain you need to sign up to 'winespectator.com', I'll email them to arrange the ownersh…

> Hey look I would like to send you the rights to my crate of wine. You truly believe this can't be done without blockchain? > You're the 1000th customer to my site. You truly believe you can't track customers without blockchain? > Or maybe you want to trade me for that in-game weapon. You truly believe it's impossible to implement in-game trading without blockchain? > Of course I could just transfer directly to your…

You can do all those things without a blockchain. It's just more practical using a blockchain.

I used to survive without a cellphone. It wasn't hard. You just called your friends when you and they were at home.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#393

Post by darkFunction »

dmitriid wrote: post #381
darkFunction wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great! Hey look I would like to send you the rights to my crate of wine. You're the 1000th customer to my site. Or maybe you want to trade it for your in-game weapon. Or I just like you and it's a gift, anonymous internet user. Of course I could just transfer directly to your Ethereum wallet. But why do that when I could explain you need to sign up to 'winespectator.com', I'll email them to arrange the ownersh…

> Hey look I would like to send you the rights to my crate of wine. You truly believe this can't be done without blockchain? > You're the 1000th customer to my site. You truly believe you can't track customers without blockchain? > Or maybe you want to trade me for that in-game weapon. You truly believe it's impossible to implement in-game trading without blockchain? > Of course I could just transfer directly to your…

I think instead of reading what I wrote, you read "you need a blockchain to do this".

The anti-blockchain narrative on here is constantly attacking the strawman of "literally everything must be decentralised".

I'm arguing that a decentralised medium of exchange through which separate points of centralisation can interact is still a useful construct.

You're comfortable with your assets being codified in a thousand different databases in a thousand different representations but the concept of having a common database representing them as "meaningless numbers" is suddenly unacceptable.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#394

Post by ssss11 »

xmprt wrote: post #243
_gf4m wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ETH's current scalability problems are beyond terrible, but there are alternatives. You can use chains like Polygon or Avalanche that are EVM, so you get all of the capabilities of Ethereum, but without insane gas fees. There are non-EVM solutions as well like Solana, which has substantially higher throughput while transactions cost a fraction of a cent. Try out other chains than ETH before ruling out web3 imo. There…

I've looked into some of the engineering that goes into Web3, and while I'm incredibly impressed, I can't quite shake the feeling that all we're doing is getting really good at counting paperclips. What real world problems does Web3 solve? It seems like Web3 has a ton of great solutions to problems that Web3 creates. Most problems that Web3 claim to solve can be solved through non blockchain solutions and even decent…

The internet is not decentralised name one application or website which does not require a server in the middle between two clients.

Edit: but I agree there are already ways Web3 things can be done, and decentralization can be done without blockchain - the question I think is whether this impressive engineering is better than the existing ways

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#395

Post by lottin »

bsnsmsksjs wrote: post #267
apatters wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say everyone on the planet is Ethereum enabled tomorrow. What is the business case for the winery to use it in your example? I get that Ethereum or any other crypto can be another payment option for their customers. Beyond that what use does a winery have for a programmable substrate underlying its transactions with customers or suppliers? I'm not saying there is none but if you're going to rip on HN users, fra…

I’ll bite. A winery could sell ownership of wine stored or wine yet to be made. The purchaser, if sold via an NFT, could resell that ownership with no interaction with the winery until claiming the wine at a later date. This means both parties no longer need any relationship between the initial sale and claiming the eventual goods. The winery will simply be able to wait for someone to return with proof of ownership a…

Are you seriously claiming Ethereum has invented futures contracts? Futures contracts have been around for decades, maybe even centuries.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#396

Post by koonsolo »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #346
tshaddox wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would any of this need cryto? If you trust the winery to hold the wine you could trust them to rule the exchange. That’s a little like saying “why would the winery need Apple to make computers for them, the winery could just develop their own computer hardware and software.” It doesn’t make sense for most wineries to develop its own online exchange system, and the fact that it’s technically possible for a winer…

The critique being made in the original article, I think, is that it's extremely hard to find a hypothetical use case for blockchain technology that can't be done without blockchain technology. A wine exchange seems to pretty clearly fall into the "things we can do pretty well without crypto" category, so one needs to explain what crypto is bringing to the party that makes it a marked improvement. In this particular…

The difference is that you can pick the exchange where you trade your token. Because the ownership of the token is really yours.

If the central party charges 1% transaction fee, it's a 1% transaction fee. If they only open on weekdays, you can't trade in the weekend, etc.

When it's your token, you can trade it wherever you want.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#397

Post by lottin »

koonsolo wrote: post #387
amunicio wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock brokers track perfectly the transfer of people rights to stocks millions of times a day without any decentralized ledger. In fact, a SQL DB has worked quite well for many years now. If the wine cellar wants their customers to trade wine, I'm sure a centralized ledger based on a SQL DB would be much easier and cheaper to implement and scale to millions of transactions.

Can I trade my wine in the weekend? Ah no, sorry, stock market is closed then. Can I trade my wine at 5pm? Ah no, European wine stock market is closed then. When you really 'own' the ticket, you can trade it anywhere you want, without being dependent on some exchange that's only open whenever and takes some fixed cut without any competition.

The fact that you can't trade on weekends is not because some technological problem, it's because there's no demand for trading on weekends. Do you think the technology suddenly stops working on weekends?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#398

Post by ElKrist »

diveanon wrote: post #334
hirsin wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your loan delimited in dollars or non-stable crypto?

Dollars via aave

Do you mind sharing the details like amount of crypto(s) / USD, interest rates, repayment terms etc.

You could scale all money numbers (not durations please) by a factor if you prefer.

I'm interested to see a real-life example

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#399

Post by was_a_dev »

hihihihi1234 wrote: post #386
lottin wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satoshi also predicted hyperinflation in 2008 after central banks intervened to mitigate the financial crisis. He was most likely a computer scientist, definitely not an economist.

He was most likely this computer scientist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Finney_(computer_scienti...

Desktop link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Finney_(computer_scientist...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#400

Post by lottin »

koonsolo wrote: post #392
dmitriid wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey look I would like to send you the rights to my crate of wine. You truly believe this can't be done without blockchain? > You're the 1000th customer to my site. You truly believe you can't track customers without blockchain? > Or maybe you want to trade me for that in-game weapon. You truly believe it's impossible to implement in-game trading without blockchain? > Of course I could just transfer directly to your…

You can do all those things without a blockchain. It's just more practical using a blockchain. I used to survive without a cellphone. It wasn't hard. You just called your friends when you and they were at home.

> It's just more practical using a blockchain.

The popularity of centralised exchanges vis-a-vis blockchain wallets suggests the opposite is true.

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