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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#391

Post by adolph »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #264
celtain wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the ERA hasn't been ratified, right?

Yes? You also know that something as momentous as a constitutional amendment doesn't happen in a vacuum either, right? It still had the effect of nearly doubling the size of the workforce, and now ~50 years later we're now seeing what it means to have a dual-earner family income. The middle class is rapidly shrinking and the dream of owning a house for many newlyweds is fast receding in the rear view mirror, but hey,…

It is interesting to think about the societal changes that drive or are driven by a constitutional amendment. If the ERA was a 1920s progressivist goal [1] then maybe one could say that it was part of a broader change to formalize work effort that existed in informal household economies. If the ERA reference is to the early 1970s effort [1] then it was a lagging indicator since the economic integration of women into the formal economy was well underway and would arrive at an equilibrium by the 1990s [0].

Exploring the counterfactual numbers: If the workforce gender share remained at the 4:6 F:M ratio of 1972, then a male workforce of 85m would mean a female workforce of 34m instead of the actual 75m. This would lead to a total workforce of 119m instead of 160m, a decrease of 41m or 25%.

Would the USSR have won the cold war if the US had 25% less economic growth over the last 50 years?

0. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/lfp/civilianlfbysex

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#392

Post by ashtonkem »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #294

From the US live in Norway now. In Norway there are a lot of political parties that can matter. All depends on the election. Some grow, some dont, new ones are added, old ones go away. That is a dynamic that is entirely missing in the US. We have parties in the European left and we have parties on the European right, parties in the middle, green party etc etc. I try to get people to understand that we do not have a s…

One of my general beliefs is that political competition is necessary for healthy and responsive governance. Everywhere I've ever lived with single party rule has devolved into myopic and unresponsive governance. The exact details vary depending on which party had total control, but the general issues remain. A party that is competing for voters is one that produces new ideas, and tries to persuade voters that they're the best choice. A party that wins by default focuses on base service and winning primaries, which often doesn't worry as much about governing well.

Unfortunately the US will never have the level of political diversity that is the norm in parliamentary democracies because FPTP heavily favors two party rule, and the two parties will never let go of FPTP for fairly obvious reasons. So the issue is, how can we make our system more dynamic given that the best solution, a change to our elector system, is probably out of reach?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#393

Post by DoingIsLearning »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #304
ThinkBeat wrote: post #294

From the US live in Norway now. In Norway there are a lot of political parties that can matter. All depends on the election. Some grow, some dont, new ones are added, old ones go away. That is a dynamic that is entirely missing in the US. We have parties in the European left and we have parties on the European right, parties in the middle, green party etc etc. I try to get people to understand that we do not have a s…

From the US and live in The Netherlands now. Europeans can understand the Republican party through their own history. They're basically just corporate fascists. Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece all had very similar corporate fascists governments for many years and their policies, politics and backers very closely tracked those of the contemporary American Republican party. Whereas the Dems are a better spoken, sligh…

I agree with the GP comment that the GOP has no right wing parallel in Europe. But your comparison with European Fascism is both innacurate and historically disrespectful.

Literally all the fascist regimes in the countries you listed were Military coups in their origin and were all fairly economically inept regimes. They also included all out media censorship, political prisoners, prisoner torture and interrogation, political assasinations, and genuine terror across civil society.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#394

Post by beaconstudios »

alibarber wrote: post #370
beaconstudios wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really strange to think that the American left (AOC, Bernie) are fighting for such radical concepts as social healthcare, free education and paid maternity leave. I'm from the UK, the most capitalist European country and we had all three until we regressed on university fees thanks to our wonderful Conservative party.

Tuition fees were introduced in 1998, under a Labour government. Sure, at a tenth of their current rate but still, under a different government.

Ah you're right it was Blair - in that case, I blame the other Conservative party; Blairite Labour.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#395

Post by 999900000999 »

giantg2 wrote: post #345
999900000999 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a better world you'd also get paid time off after a car crash , heart surgery, etc. America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes. https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5g8eq/amazon-denied-a-worke...

"America's the only county that doesn't offer parental leave, it's not radical to say this leads to poor outcomes." You mean paid parental leave? You should be able to take unpaid parental leave under FMLA for medical reasons. America is not the only country. It depends on if you mean developed country or some other missing adjective. Also, you said parental leave. Many countries only offer maturity leave, and not pa…

>You mean paid parental leave? You should be able to take unpaid parental leave under FMLA for medical reasons.

No working class person can just take 6 months off and still make rent.

In many countries you can take leave before having a kid or after. America lacks any such framework, or general worker protection. A family member of mine missed significant time from work due to a difficult pregnancy. Lucky the kid was fine, but her employer just fired her. *Yes this was illegal, but their wasn't any real recourse she could take*

Most of us here are very privileged. But no normal person can sell some RSUs and take off half a year

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#396

Post by meheleventyone »

closeparen wrote: post #378
meheleventyone wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds totally bonkers if you’re not used to it but this is actually the norm in other countries. Both of us had comparatively long parental leave for both kids. Both kids went into really nice state kindergarten before they were 18 months. Before that if we were poorer we’d have our childcare subsidised. Both kids get things like a sports club grant each year, free dental care and free healthcare. There are state…

Big difference between providing a free/affordable childcare center vs. paying the parent to not work for 5 years.

Yes but I didn’t take the OP as wanting not to work or needing all their expenses covered. Subsidise doesn’t necessarily mean that.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#397

Post by cmrdporcupine »

"If you live in Canada or, say, France, you are probably amused by this little thought experiment. And possibly drinking a beer from a small and dainty glass."

Not really. Yes we have one year parental leave here in Canada, but the $$ value of that is not very high all things considered. It's not enough to live on on its own. Maximum in Ontario right now is $595 CAD a week for the highest income earners and lower than that (2/3rds of pre-leave earnings) for others, and rents and housing have climbed very high, so in reality you still need a working spouse to make ends meet on that.

So, no, we're not laughing, but we do have sympathy.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#398

Post by sangnoir »

handrous wrote: post #389
sircastor wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s insane to me that our absurd health care system has routed around insurance systems shortcomings by literally begging friends, family and strangers to help us afford basic living. And the insurance companies are laughing all the way to bank.

It's an alarming sign of political and social rot, IMO, that this has become so normal that barely-computer-literate people out in my flyover part of the US regularly launch healthcare-related GoFundMes, if their kids get seriously ill especially, and there hasn't been an overwhelming "holy shit, this is very not OK, drop everything and fix this now " reaction.

> It's an alarming sign of political and social rot

For some people, charity replacing government social safety nets is a feature, not a bug, since they want to control where "their" money goes. Sure, it sucks when you're not photogenic[1] enough to hit your GoFundMe targets, but look at the bright side: we'd have avoided wasteful government spending.

1. Wink wink.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#399

Post by KaiserPro »

_bixt wrote: post #344
refurb wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent who got 6 months that barely fucking scratches the surface of the time it take to raise a human. Subsidize me until they are in public school and I’ll high five you.

You are asking for an incredibly high amount of welfare, essentially "everyone else in society should pay me for 5 years because I chose to have a kid". I'm choosing to have a kid too, but I'm taking the personal responsibility path of saving and paying for it on my own. Perhaps there is some middleground, but 5 years is absolutely absurd.

I see what you're saying there, but perhaps look at it this way:

our comfortable retirement is dependent on a good crop of reasonably successful children being born now, or in the previous 5 years.

It benefits us that those children are brought up to be balanced, rational pragmatic people. Perhaps extended child care might be the thing that does it?

I suspect that five years is indeed too much.

However perhaps the answer is one year "off" plus cheap, good quality child care from 1 year plus?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#400

Post by _bixt »

croo wrote: post #388
_bixt wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are asking for an incredibly high amount of welfare, essentially "everyone else in society should pay me for 5 years because I chose to have a kid". I'm choosing to have a kid too, but I'm taking the personal responsibility path of saving and paying for it on my own. Perhaps there is some middleground, but 5 years is absolutely absurd.

Uhh, it's 3 years where I live (though the welfare money for the last one and half year is very low and lots of mother go back to work before that) I would say 3 year is pretty good as kids starts to gain a lot from socializing after that age. Why would this be absurd? It's perfectly normal. Looking after a toddler is hard 7/24 work with little time to spare. Of course you can go to work and instead pay for a house c…

I believe in taking time away from work to raise kids. In fact, I am taking several years away from work now for that purpose. What I disagree with is who should pay for it. I'm paying for my living expenses and raising my child from my savings that I earned at my generous paying job. I think the government should pay for up to perhaps 3 months for raising kids (and it shouldn't be based on your salary, but tied to some universally agreed upon basic living wage), but any more than that should be self-financed. There is a set amount of handouts society can give out before it implodes, and there are far better uses for that money than giving you the privilege of a plush lifestyle while you choose to stay at home with your toddler.
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