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.NET 6 Released

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET 6 Released

#391

Post by azth »

naikrovek wrote: post #314
azth wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, arguably a better decision than writing it in golang to begin with.

Go is better than Java any day of any week if startup time or memory footprint are of any concern to you at all. Also Java is OO which is... terrible to say the least.

GraalVM is a thing (see: www.quarkus.io for an example) if fast startup and low memory usage are a requirement.

Not sure what the OO rant is about, it's awesome. It's not like golang isn't (poorly implemented) OO as well (minus explicit inheritance, which embedding is somewhat similar as well).

Re: .NET 6 Released

#392

Post by ClawsOnPaws »

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #315
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would go so far as to argue for deployment of a self-contained webservice to the end users that could be accessed via any arbitrary localhost browser" Might as well use Unity game engine and write your app inside one.

There seems to be some people writing UI applications with the Godot game engine. Given the dismal state of desktop UI frameworks/tools, this seem to make more and more sense (very light binaries, solid cross-platform support, a WYSIWYG toolkit with good scripting functionality, a high-performance 2D renderer, access to C/C++ if you wan to go low-level, you name it.) Examples: https://www.wonderdraft.net/ https://git…

This is an accessibility nightmare. Please think hard before doing this.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#393

Post by jhgb »

DeathArrow wrote: post #380
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From a management perspective, this is not bad. You get movable team members. I have a friend-of-a-friend who has a successful 30 person contracting business. They do C#. He , the co-owner benefits from this. I was responding to a question from a FAANG developer. FAANG developers don't get moved. FAANG developers move when they want to move: to projects that they find interesting; to other FAANGs; or to start-ups. A…

>FAANG developers move when they want to move: to projects that they find interesting; to other FAANGs; If a developer knows C# he can tackle more than one domain. Suppose you got bored and want to switch. Or there are new interesting opportunities. If you know C#, you just switch without having to learn a new language and libraries.

> without having to learn a new language

Well, at least you can if Blazor gets finished.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#394

Post by naasking »

to11mtm wrote: post #222
bmitc wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Replace ".NET" with "Windows" maybe? There's Uno, Avalonia, Xamarin Forms, and MAUI, all cross-platform. I think it's a mess no matter what.

In all fairness, at one point you could actually make sense of things. Unless I'm misremembering, until recently Avalonia was still being touted as primarily a replacement for Desktop WPF. I was shocked to see they're talking about mobile now too. I guess it's somewhat expected. Uno basically does what MAUI does. The main difference being, Uno has been around for a while longer and something you've been able to use f…

> - Click new project - Fill out the form - Get a Design window - Drag a 'Textbox' into the design window, - Drag a 'Button' into the design window

Non-starter these days. Building a form graphically doesn't take into account multiple screen sizes and screens that can change dimensions on the fly, which are now far more prevalent than the heady desktop UI days that you're talking about here. Unless you have some novel idea for how to design graphically for all sorts of screen sizes.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#395

Post by naasking »

FpUser wrote: post #254
int_19h wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the technical side, the biggest productivity gain is from having a garbage collector. Beyond that, language features: while C# 1.0 started in a spot very similar to Delphi (+GC), it evolved much faster - e.g. getting generics in 2005. But, yes, if you looked at it in 1.x days, it really looked a lot like Delphi libraries with Java-like syntax. So if you were already using Delphi, there wasn't much point.

>"On the technical side, the biggest productivity gain is from having a garbage collector." 1) I use leak detection tool so no productivity gain in that area. Besides it is burned into my brain to always write deallocation code first before doing any allocations. That is when my classes are not using interfaces that are reference counted. In reality I could hardly remember any instances when memory / resource leak to…

> 1) I use leak detection tool so no productivity gain in that area.

These are never as good as garbage collection. In some cases, not even close.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#396

Post by cyber_kinetist »

ClawsOnPaws wrote: post #392
cyber_kinetist wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be some people writing UI applications with the Godot game engine. Given the dismal state of desktop UI frameworks/tools, this seem to make more and more sense (very light binaries, solid cross-platform support, a WYSIWYG toolkit with good scripting functionality, a high-performance 2D renderer, access to C/C++ if you wan to go low-level, you name it.) Examples: https://www.wonderdraft.net/ https://git…

This is an accessibility nightmare. Please think hard before doing this.

Well, the two applications I’ve linked above are very graphically intensive (the first one is a map designer, and the second is an image editor), up to the point that it will be meaningless to add any screen reader or dictation support. In some cases you’ve got to admit that it’s close to impossible to bring certain features to people with certain disabilities (although I think this should be its own field of HCI research, maybe it can be possible someday?)

Re: .NET 6 Released

#397

Post by FpUser »

naasking wrote: post #395
FpUser wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"On the technical side, the biggest productivity gain is from having a garbage collector." 1) I use leak detection tool so no productivity gain in that area. Besides it is burned into my brain to always write deallocation code first before doing any allocations. That is when my classes are not using interfaces that are reference counted. In reality I could hardly remember any instances when memory / resource leak to…

> 1) I use leak detection tool so no productivity gain in that area. These are never as good as garbage collection. In some cases, not even close.

I consider this statement false

Re: .NET 6 Released

#398

Post by moonchrome »

DeathArrow wrote: post #366
moonchrome wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly - .NET ecosystem and community is structured around cost center development. I see Microsoft attempting to make C#/ASP.NET more lean and faster to get started with (eg. minimal APIs) but I doubt they can overcome the stigma.

I was working with .NET most of my career. And I've been in a cost center just for one year.

And I'm sure some COBOL developer out there is working on new projects.

That doesn't change the fact that .NET roots are in old enterprise and Java - which was dumbed down by design to make it easy to onboard unskilled developers (look at their arguments against local type inference and lambdas before they were added).

Things like ASP.NET core slam you with heavy duty abstractions from ground up and justify it by project scaling and reducing maintenance cost at the expense of iteration speed - again tradeoffs made for large enterprise const center style projects.

With recent iterations (minimal APIs, top level functions, namespace declaration, etc.) they are trying to reduce those tradeoffs and cater to the startup crowd but the MS + corporate budget development stigma is going to be there.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#399

Post by jmnicolas »

merb wrote: post #107
jmnicolas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah "publish" is magical, I specifically jumped from .net 4.8 to 5 just for this feature.

msbuild had publish since at least .net 3.5 (when I started to use the platform) it was just a little bit akward to use tough. and of course dotnet publish is 1000x better than msbuild with it's obscure syntax (which got way better in .net5 and 6 with -p: syntax, etc.)

I don't remember what changed, but I wasn't able to use it on my old .NET projects.

Re: .NET 6 Released

#400

Post by bmitc »

naasking wrote: post #394
to11mtm wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, at one point you could actually make sense of things. Unless I'm misremembering, until recently Avalonia was still being touted as primarily a replacement for Desktop WPF. I was shocked to see they're talking about mobile now too. I guess it's somewhat expected. Uno basically does what MAUI does. The main difference being, Uno has been around for a while longer and something you've been able to use f…

> - Click new project - Fill out the form - Get a Design window - Drag a 'Textbox' into the design window, - Drag a 'Button' into the design window Non-starter these days. Building a form graphically doesn't take into account multiple screen sizes and screens that can change dimensions on the fly, which are now far more prevalent than the heady desktop UI days that you're talking about here. Unless you have some nove…

I personally think it's a mistake that frameworks try to be all in one by trying to target mobile (phones and tablets), desktops, and even web. It just doesn't work, and I don't know of a single platform that actually accomplishes it without major limitations on one or more platforms.
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