Earlier quoted context omitted.
The state can shut down anything in theory. In practice it is much harder in a liberal democracy to shut down a network where operators are numerous, interchangable and have low capital requirements.
like drugs, prostitution, and myriad of other small time victim-less crimes?
Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
391–400 of 618 posts
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
The state can shut down anything in theory. In practice it is much harder in a liberal democracy to shut down a network where operators are numerous, interchangable and have low capital requirements.
like drugs, prostitution, and myriad of other small time victim-less crimes?
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#393While I applaud Signal's response I expect this entire event (subpoena and response) will be provided as one of the exhibits to congress by the Department of Justice to justify their request that it be unlawful to provide such services. The DoJ will say, "See, here is this horrible crime we are investigating and because this company chose to make it impossible for law enforcement, with a warrant and a subpoena to get…
"Do you have no other way of investigating these criminals?" "Could you not put an officer out to surveille them?", Your argument kind of falls on itself there --> We can surveil them in person, but not digitally? Why? I think the tech crowd has this wrong. The issue - as you have indicated - is not 'By What Means To Surveil'. The issues are: Legitimacy, Proportionality, Oversight. Messages, tech, sign language, in p…
Are they though? First it's "only" to catch the super-terrorists. Then it's only to catch the murderers. Then it's for VIP missing person cases. Then it's petty crime. Then it's for political opponents. Then nobody dares ask anymore about "legitimacy, proportionality, oversight."
When those in power grant themselves more power, the onus is on them to prove they can't abuse that power. Of course, the way power works is they have that choice and we don't.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#394While I applaud Signal's response I expect this entire event (subpoena and response) will be provided as one of the exhibits to congress by the Department of Justice to justify their request that it be unlawful to provide such services. The DoJ will say, "See, here is this horrible crime we are investigating and because this company chose to make it impossible for law enforcement, with a warrant and a subpoena to get…
I think this should be implemented regardless. But the danger is they can easily say "sure; your turn". Some in law enforcement may even genuinely want to do that for its own sake.
I think that's a totally orthogonal thing to violating citizens' privacy and shouldn't be considered as leverage or a counterargument.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#395Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#396This threat is why there need to be checks on the power of the state to conduct searches, one of which is privacy technology like encrypted communication networks.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is why there should not be a single entity that runs the network. Make it fully decentralized with economic incentives for node operators. some projects trying to do this now are Status, Session, Sylo
It can be made illegal to be an operator and to use those incentives in the sanctioned marketplace.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
Freedom of speech is such a bizarre thing in USA. I understand citizens need the right to voice their opinion without fear of government repression; but citizens shouldn't believe they have the right to insult and behave antisocially to other citizens. Any kind of white supremacist behavior is not something to be treasured as freedom, because that enables their harmful behavior against other citizens.
It's only freedom of speech if it protects speech which is actually controversial. This isn't high school. People should have the right to give offense and behave antisocially, if for no other reason than because there is no one who can be trusted with the power to determine what falls into these extremely arbitrary and subjective categories. Yes we should tolerate the speech of white supremacists and other hateful c…
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
like drugs, prostitution, and myriad of other small time victim-less crimes?
Are you aware of how easy it is to find drugs and prostitutes?
I’ve never been offered drugs by anyone in my life and I couldn’t tell you if someone standing on a street-corner is someone simply wanting to cross the street when the lights change or an undercover cop… or an actual prostitute. What am I supposed to be looking for?
(Yes, I’m on-the-spectrum and don’t get invited to parties, so I’m not representative of everyone else’s experience, but I am being sincere in my anecdote)
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's only freedom of speech if it protects speech which is actually controversial. This isn't high school. People should have the right to give offense and behave antisocially, if for no other reason than because there is no one who can be trusted with the power to determine what falls into these extremely arbitrary and subjective categories. Yes we should tolerate the speech of white supremacists and other hateful c…
The question is, what do you do when they gain power?