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Overly analytical guide to escorting

knowingless.com

391–400 of 465 posts

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is her experience is niche and unique, it is not indicative of how the industry at large actually operates so making any judgements would not be meaningful as OP was doing.

I don't think that's true. I know a former escort pretty well and she's told me a lot about her work. It lines up very well with the article, except that she didn't have a high opinion of the very high end/expensive escorting because there simply isn't enough business available at the $1200/hr level. At least, not in Europe. It worked out much better for her to charge a more regular price and work full time. Otherwis…

Perhaps the regular price for your friend is high end equivalent of 1200 ?. The author strongly says the population of an area makes a big difference in the rates you can charge.

Also mean income (as measured by her study of other workers) is $100,000 with her average rates of her sample around 500-600.

Effectively

    = F(x)(y)(z)

   X - number of people earning 200x the hourly rate

   Y -  % of that interested in paying for sex[1]

   Z - relative beauty rank among service providers[2] in that area
You cannot control beauty much but you could change for location and optimize for all the factors to get best rate[3]. Or optimize for total money depending on what is preferred.

[1] age is strong factor so demographics is a good proxy metric.

Also perhaps friction with law is proxy for cultural acceptance and can be numerically scaled : fully legal, decriminalized, or criminal with quantum of punishment for scaling. And degree of enforcement measured by number of arrests / convictions etc.

[2] probably being 9 in LA wouldnt be the same as say Wyoming( demand would be lesser as a counter pressure)

[3] touring is a thing perhaps because of this.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the action under consideration is of a wholly different class than the others you mention. For example, we regulate ivf, don't we? Why? Because the action undertaken has the ability to create new life. The same is true of prostitution. The action undertaken is of a wholly different nature. Namely it can create people, which is different than any other labor. Tolerating homosexual prostitution is actually more…

> For example, we regulate ivf, don't we? Why? Because the action undertaken has the ability to create new life. The same is true of prostitution. No, we don't regulate it because it can create new life, we regulate it because it falls under healthcare for which doctors have a certain duty of care, and if IVF is done poorly it can cause all sorts of deleterious health effects for the mother and the implanted embryo.…

Nonsense, we directly regulate even that which is not about health care. For example, most countries limit the amount of children a man can sire via sperm donation.

> These considerations do not apply to prostitution since we have contraception and abortion.

Whose burden falls solely on the women, and for which large portions of the population would object to the use of abortion as birth control. Even many pro-abortion people object to abortion's use as birth control, because they view abortion as justified murder, but murder nevertheless.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a libertarian and I'm not a small government person. I believe inimited government, not small government. If you need a giant government to enforce law then you need a big government. For example, if you have a government of say 100 people, and they decided to hire 10 people and start a fast food restaurant I would be against this new government of 110 people. On the other hand, if the same government needed…

Ok, you are not a hypocrite, but I still think it's objectively bad policy from a cost-benefit standpoint, and it's bad from every political perspective. Four arguments that might move a right-leaning person: - The drug war is indirectly causing more illegal immigration into the US because it's destabilizing South America. - The drug war is shifting large profits away from US pharma and into foreign narco gangs, whic…

> Ok, you are not a hypocrite, but I still think it's objectively bad policy from a cost-benefit standpoint, and it's bad from every political perspective. Four arguments that might move a right-leaning person:

I'm not a libertarian, but libertarians -- unless they're of the high school variety -- are not carte blanche small government. They are certainly limited government. Perhaps you should begin by not arguing against high-school-level strawmen.

> The drug war is indirectly causing more illegal immigration into the US because it's destabilizing South America.

Almost certainly, but what happens in South America is not america's problem. America can build a wall and deport the illegal aliens back, as any sovereign country would.

> The drug war is shifting large profits away from US pharma and into foreign narco gangs, which is bad for GDP growth and therefore the strength of the nation.

Yes, unfortunately, we do not imprison enough whites for their drug habits, and instead jail mostly non-whites. The solution is to put more white drug users in jail for a very long time or institute pretty harsh rehabilitation programs (i.e., not released until you're sober for X amount of time, and then close follow-up monitoring).

> The drug war means taxation needs to be higher because it's expensive.

That's fine. I'm not against taxation, as long as the taxes are being spent on worthwhile things that are the purview of government. For example, if you told me taxes had to be raised 1% for 'diversity training' I'd say no, because diversity training is not the purview of government. If you told me taxes had to be raised 20% due to an increase in crime and the need to imprison and incarcerate more criminals, that would be okay. WE all have to share society's burdens, I just don't want to share the burden of things I don't want.

> The drug war creates more street crime, which ranks highly in what right-leaning people care about.

Indeed. So we should institute harsher criminal sentencing.

> So I just don't understand why right-leaning people (not just libertarians) are so actively voting against almost all of their stated interests.

Dude... you live in a bubble. There is no group of 'right-leaning' people who 'state' their interests in some centralized publication.

The only people who 'state' right-leaning people's interests are left-wing publications trying to create strawmen. Perhaps listen to others instead of imagining their interests?

> how bad it is for the black community,

The black community was the initial force behind the drug war

> how poor whites are being literally killed by fentanyl

More doctors and pharmacists should frankly be in jail.

> how it pushes people into more dangerous and cheaper drugs such as ice and crack

Great, those dealers should be imprisoned too. We have too few prisons in this country, given the level of crime and drugs.

> how hypocritical it is for alcohol and cigarettes to be legal

Alcohol and cigarettes have a long cultural history. They are luxuries tolerated for the culture. Not something innate.

> how morally questionable it is to punish a victimless crime

The victim is the person doing the drugs. It is well within the purview of government to punish people for victimizing themselves, to discourage the behavior. For example, many countries used to criminalize attempted suicide. I'm not going to turn this into an argument on that... but that is well within the government's purview.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#394

I recommend following Aella on Twitter. She does some really interesting (and some very controversial) twitter polls: https://twitter.com/aella_girl

There's also some youtube stuff. Here an interview on similar questions to the article: https://youtu.be/bkiPNMbeOH0

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#395
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the apex of capitalist dehumanization to suggest that having few marketable services makes a person "weak" or that being having sex with people you don't love for money to eat food is a "luxury." Re-evaluate how you see people.

sadly the comments here reflect the overwhelming male capitalist bias of the HN community. - A transactional view of life and relationships. - Quick dismissal of concern for sex worker exploitation because "all jobs are exploitation", which simultaneously (a) minimizes the particularly bad nature of sexual exploitation, (b) speciously defines all work as exploitative, effectively neutering the word "exploitation" and…

> - A transactional view of life and relationships.

Is the irony not lost on you making such a statement on post about prostitution?

A "sex worker" is just a euphemism for a whore. You know what they say about lipsticks and pigs.

> that most sex work is done in desperation, that our society doesn't give everyone even close to a level playing field.

Cry me a river. That is such a lame copout. Not all of these prostitutes are desperate, and even the ones that are make a better living than some software engineers. You are telling me that a person can't find any job other than selling their own body??? What would you tell all the other women making minimum wage? Should they all become whores too?

My whole point was that desperate men don't even have the same luxury of such a fallback "job", so your statement is rather ironic.

> - Some comments showing veiled resentment that they have to pay a woman for sex, that women have it easier, that men are the unlucky ones, the oppressed ones.

Well, is it not true? In the sexual marketplace getting sex for women is effortless, and for men it takes all the effort in the world.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, you are not a hypocrite, but I still think it's objectively bad policy from a cost-benefit standpoint, and it's bad from every political perspective. Four arguments that might move a right-leaning person: - The drug war is indirectly causing more illegal immigration into the US because it's destabilizing South America. - The drug war is shifting large profits away from US pharma and into foreign narco gangs, whic…

> Ok, you are not a hypocrite, but I still think it's objectively bad policy from a cost-benefit standpoint, and it's bad from every political perspective. Four arguments that might move a right-leaning person: I'm not a libertarian, but libertarians -- unless they're of the high school variety -- are not carte blanche small government. They are certainly limited government. Perhaps you should begin by not arguing ag…

Your argument is that the cost and side effects don't matter, the war on drugs must be won no matter what. You hand wave away the negative consequences (illegal immigration can be magically dealt with with better enforcement!). If that's your perspective then I can't change your mind because it's coming from a place of ideology.

  "The only people who 'state' right-leaning people's interests are left-wing publications trying to create strawmen. Perhaps listen to others instead of imagining their interests?"
What? Illegal immigration, taxes, crime and the economy are among the top issues for conservatives, and your drug war is making all of those things worse. If you think these aren't concerns for conservatives you are just wrong. Polling of conservatives establishes this clearly as does the rhetoric of leading conservatives. The economy, crime and illegal immigration were all big parts of Trump's platform.

I vote conservative for the most part. I'm just not one of those authoritarian dick head conservatives that try to control other people's lives over victimless crimes. And no, the person who smokes pot isn't a victim. Tobacco and alcohol are worse for the body than the occasional vape, so I completely reject your premise.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If prostitution, which is heavily stigmatized by the society a person lives in and is illegal, starts looking attractive, then there is something wrong, don't you think? I live in a country that doesn't criminalize prostitution. But even in countries where it is criminalized (most of them), it still can be an attractive enough proposition for sure, depending on the circumstances. Not all prostitutes are those "stree…

> but one can start by stopping to stigmatize prostitutes, starting with ourselves and then with the people we know. Just threat them as well human beings. Agree. >> Sure, if you have 2 choices - prostitution or dying from starvation, then it's not coerced consent. > Correct, that's life being shitty to you. It's not coercion because coercion requires somebody to make threats. To pressure, intimidate, or force (someo…

>How prostitution can be not destructive for the psych?

>We can't look at our body as some crutch which you can sell for a couple of hours.

Disagree on both.

>And no, physical labor and repetitive work are not the same as prostitution.

Disagree it's worse, agree it's not the same. Let me elaborate with an old comment of mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21106425

>Prostitution is degrading for the person

Disagree.

Some Johns will surely try to degrade and abuse prostitutes (outside of a safe, agree-upon role play setting). We call these people "bullies" or even "criminals" (depending on that they do). Cutting off a prostitutes ability to file charges against such people by making her or him fear they will get arrested... well I reiterated that point enough by now, I feel.

>What's next, let's decriminalize child prostitution?

Recycled slippery slope FUD "somebody think of the children" argument, used a lots of times, e.g. when "they" claimed that same sex marriages would lead to people marrying their dogs, daughters and children.

I was planning to give you a more detailed response, but after reading this, and the "male capitalist bias" bull post you linked, I am honestly not so keen on spending brain cycles on arguing with you.

From one of your other comments (I just got curious now, after you linked the other poster):

>In capitalistic society everything can be called labour, including selling people, their organs and their genitals for sex.

What the actual fuck is this false equivalency?

Selling people and selling organs is hardly the same as doing some consensual work for paying customers.

I am pretty sure nobody here even made that argument, but I guess it's easier to attack that strawman.

>It leaves something that will make people realize that they have nothing to lose but their chains.

Oh hurray, Marx is alive!

Sorry, but you cannot eat "empowerment" and you cannot break the chains of "famine" or "overpopulation". What's the goal here? Bloody revolution against capitalism towards a collective utopia? This would only work if everybody was pure and virtuous, and that's just not the reality. Even Rousseau acknowledged that.

You can make things fairer, and we should strive to do that. But "breaking chains" rhetoric in this context is counter-productive at best, and destructive at worst, as well as divorced from reality.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If prostitution, which is heavily stigmatized by the society a person lives in and is illegal, starts looking attractive, then there is something wrong, don't you think? I live in a country that doesn't criminalize prostitution. But even in countries where it is criminalized (most of them), it still can be an attractive enough proposition for sure, depending on the circumstances. Not all prostitutes are those "stree…

> but one can start by stopping to stigmatize prostitutes, starting with ourselves and then with the people we know. Just threat them as well human beings. Agree. >> Sure, if you have 2 choices - prostitution or dying from starvation, then it's not coerced consent. > Correct, that's life being shitty to you. It's not coercion because coercion requires somebody to make threats. To pressure, intimidate, or force (someo…

> We can't look at our body as some crutch which you can sell for a couple of hours.

That's a good argument against wage labor in capitalism, but not a specific argument against prostitution as opposed to other, particularly physical, wage labor.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#400
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some Nordic countries, it's not illegal to sell sex, but it is to buy it. What do you think about that? Do you think making the men fear the law, but not the women, would do anything to help the women? I guess the government's objective is to kill the business completely, which is about as realistic as prohibiting alcohol.

From the linked article This increases competition of sex workers for johns, artificially drives prices down, gives johns greater bargaining power over sex workers, and doesn’t fix the problem of johns trying hard to remain anonymous and requiring situations where you’re less able to go to the police if you wanted. Sex workers hate this.

I am aware of her view from the article. The approach I believe is more aimed at involuntary victims not being further victimized or being threatened with being reported to law enforcement as a mechanism of control. The sex workers Aella is sampling and interacting with may or may-not be a representative of this segment or Nordic countries have bigger problems with this than in United States

I don't have an opinion(or data) on whether this is effective or is good approach or not, just wanted point out that it is less about driving demand down, they are not trying to criminalize johns(it already was) but trying to address issues on the workers side perhaps ineffectively.

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