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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#391

Post by dfxm12 »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221
version_five wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. For example, the government being able…

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

What type of responses did you get?

I agree, engaging people is a good way to go. I don't know any anti-vaxxers personally, so I have to actively work to remind myself they might not all have the same reasons as the ones I know impersonally (who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.).

There are no silver bullets that lead to peace and harmony, obviously, but a greater understanding of each other is good for many reasons.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#392

Post by Workaccount2 »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #356
acdha wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it’s not that simple because your choices significantly impact other people: I can’t choose whether or not to receive the viruses you spread, so I have an interest in you spreading far fewer of them. My 4 year old child can’t be vaccinated so he, along with many immune-compromised people or those with certain medical conditions, is dependent on other people getting vaccinated to sharply reduce spr…

Your mindset is deeply concerning and rather evil in its supremacist belief you are justified in imposing things on others against their will. You may believe you are justified in that imposition, as all authoritarian types are, but one thing is for sure, the precedent to overturn the most fundamental concepts of freedom you demand be imposed on all, WILL be used against the useful idiots in short order, as is always…

Most people agree that you should not be allowed to drink and drive, yet some cannot transpose this logic onto being vaccinated.

If you want to drink and drive, go for it, just don't do it anywhere public. If you want to be unvaxxed, fine, just don't go anywhere public.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#393

Post by nextaccountic »

cies wrote: post #260
ericcholis wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the anti-vaxx or vaxx hesitant arguments is that Pharma can't be sued for damages under EUA. I'm honestly not sure how true that is precisely.

FDA approved or not, they cannot be sued for vaccine drama. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c... Claims can only go by "vaccine court" (yes that's a thing according to Wikipedia)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen...

From that Wikipedia article, pharma companies paid a total of 2.5 billions in damages from 2006 to 2020. Seems hard to say that they can't be sued, it's just a different court system.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#394

Post by kenjackson »

not2b wrote: post #349
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

Someone might be holding out for a reason they can't articulate or justify, so they give have an answer to your question (what would it take to change your mind?) but it might not be the true one or the sufficient one. I hope that this latest change sways some people but I don't think it will be a lot.

That works, but only if the reason is one they feel willing to give you. For example, I suspect a really simple answer for a lot of people could be "if it increases the chances of Trump being president in 2024". Or "if Covid killed my wife and some, but not all, of my kids".

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#395

Post by tw04 »

acdha wrote: post #284
version_five wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. For example, the government being able…

> No doubt this will be the case for some. So, you've found a logical flaw in people's stated reasons for not wanting a vaccine. How does that help anything? In these kinds of debates, the actual goals or beliefs of both sides often differ from what they say. This line of thought leads to the sentence immediately following the one you quoted: if there are a large percentage of people who were hesitant due to sincere…

>Some of those are devout anti-vaccination activists but I believe that they are still a relatively small fraction of the hesitant. When not being vaccinated comes with a direct personal cost we'll see how sincere those beliefs are.

I have a friend in this group. There was no logical reason to not get vaccinated, her parents just kept regurgitating all the blatantly false conspiracy theories they were reading on the internet. The amount of times I heard "I'd get it if Bill Gates weren't involved, he's trying to track us" made my head spin.

Now work is requiring it to stay employed, so she's getting it. I'm both sad that's what it took, and happy that it was enough to overcome irrational fear mongering on the world wide web.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#396

Post by mlang23 »

lovecg wrote: post #362
mlang23 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccination is still not mandatory, right? Why do you write "excuse"? Are you really so full of yourself that you can not accept that people make different decisions from yours? Why do you even care? I assume you got the vaccine for yourself. So what is the issue? Why do you have to speak about your fellow humans in such a derogatory tone?

I personally don’t have an issue with this decision if they also opt out of any (btw also experimental, not approved) treatments for Covid in case they do get it. You know, to be consistent. Will keep the hospitals from becoming overcrowded.

Wow, amazing. I hope I never stand next to you. The shiver would probably freeze me to death.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#397

Post by makomk »

zamalek wrote: post #208
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

We're having a vaccinated wedding. Unvaccinated/uninvited guests are now employing the base rate fallacy: "there are more breakthroughs than unvaccinated cases."

The thing is, it's not actually a fallacy when you're working out how much benefit getting rid of the remaining unvaccinated people would have. Think about it this way: if there are say 20 vaccinated people and 5 unvaccinated people with Covid, vaccinating all the remaining people or banning them from whatever event won't do anything about the 20 vaccinated breakthrough cases. So the ratio of unvaccinated cases to vaccinated breakthrough cases effectively imposes a hard cap on how effective this kind of policy could ever be.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#398

Post by [deleted] »

icegreentea2 wrote: post #381
probablypower wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has had both COVID (before vaccines were available) and a COVID vaccine, this reasoning seems frankly dumb as bricks. There is uncertainty about long-term effects of both. There is no uncertainty about the short-term effects of COVID, which are magnitudes worse than the short-term effects of a vaccine. COVID for me was a multi-week flu that scared the shit out of me because I didn't know how bad it wou…

Have you recovered from the mental fog/memory problems? As a 30-odd year old knowledge worker (vaccinated), that's the thing that affects my personal risk assessment the most right now.

[deleted]

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#399

Post by sleepysysadmin »

mlang23 wrote: post #334
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. Disclaimer: I am fully vax, so not the target audience. The subject is worth discussion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#History RNA vaccines have decades of failures. Following the normal drug approval processes 100% of RNA attempts have failed. The only reason we got the vaccine today…

What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status. So we effectively reached a point where you are only allowed to be critical of vaccination after you got yourself a shot. This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Things said and claimed by all sides in the past 1 1/2 years have made me really stop believe in humanity. It feels like a bad dream or a stra…

>What I find most sad about your post is that you had to open by stating your vaccination status.

The political status of this website requires me to disclaimer. I expect even with the disclaimer I will be attacked regardless. If not downvoted to the point that my words are hidden. Which isn't much of a prediction because this post is already downvoted.

>This is so weird and frightening, I dont know what to say. Things said and claimed by all sides in the past 1 1/2 years have made me really stop believe in humanity.

Political status/motivation. I wouldn't let it damage your position in humanity.

>People are seriously writing here that they think if people are being fired, that pressure will "hopefully change their minds". Are you aware how cruel you are? You wish someone to loose their income just because they dont have the same opinion then you? When did this happen? When did we start to produce people like this? When did we stop to take?

Don't go on reddit and look at this. They are cheering as antivaxxers are getting covid and dying. They are ecstatic to see people losing their jobs because of vaccination status. 6% of people cant get the vaccine but they dont care.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#400

Post by saiya-jin »

mlang23 wrote: post #350
walls wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume you don't drink and drive yourself. So what is the issue? See how silly that sounds?

This is no quote, so please dont make it look like one. Also, the comparison is nonsense. If someone drinks and drives, they did intake something into their system which made them a risk to others. What you want is the reverse. Everyone is by default a risk to the society, and only if the get a biannual shot from the latest and greatest experimental medicine, you deem them no danger to society. You are trying to outl…

Can you please briefly explain to us your negative emotions towards covid vaccination if you don't mind? There is no scientific reason good enough to not have it for most of the population.

Making it a stance about personal freedoms is often used but it detracts discussion about facts of approved vaccinations, positive or negative they may be.

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