Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an american who went through US-based curriculum in the 90s, this sounds FUCKING WONDERFUL . Basically - it seems like the approach above treats math as a conceptual playground, where you should develop intuition and understanding. Instead we seem to be going down the rote memorization route for most of our classes, where the goal was to apply an equation to some numbers and get the right answer, with little to no…
My British state education really did feel like "memorise just enough to jump through these arbitrary hoops which keep the government off our backs" sometimes. It's very exam-driven rather than learning for its own sake and apparently it's got even worse since schools started transitioning to academies and Gove's reforms took effect.
American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
391–400 of 558 posts
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#392Lots of comments asking what is "Soviet/Russian Math" actually like, and how is it different. I was lucky to get an education in three systems (Soviet Math, Romanian Math School (influenced by both French and Soviet Math school), and finally in a world top 40 university in North America. I would summarize the Soviet/Russian Math/Physics approach like this: - understanding of the mechanism/intuition behind the equatio…
That’s very insightful - when I switched to US high school, the approach to math was baffling - everyone had programmable graphing calculators, whereas I wasn’t allowed any calculator at all, and took a lot longer to solve the most basic problems. Most questions were answered by the teacher as “it’s a formula, you follow it and memorize it” (which sounded ridiculous to me for the exact reasons above - I was taught to…
He was heavily avoided by many and "special" for doing so. I found it easier to forego the calculator as it allowed us to focus on methods and how/why over just moving large numbers around.
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#393I liked math, a lot. The SAT Math test said I had a lot of talent in math. I concentrated on math in US grades 9-12, college, and graduate school, did some math research, that later I published, got a Ph.D. in pure/applied math, and am now using some advanced and some original math as advantages in my startup.
So, I struggled through the good and bad but eventually decided that there were a lot of good math books; it was not very difficult to identify the relatively good authors and books; and the keys to learning math well were a stack of blank paper on a clipboard, a sharp pencil, a big, soft eraser, one or a few good math books in the subject being studied, a lot of good exercises, a comfortable chair, a good light, and a quiet room. That's how I learned nearly all the math I did learn; still if I want to learn some math, that is what I use.
This technique of a quiet room worked for me many times, but once was a nice surprise: The college I went to for my freshman year was selected because I could walk to it and it was cheap. The most advanced math course they would let me in was beneath what I'd already done in high school -- the high school was relatively good (MIT came recruiting; 97% of the students went on to college; one year three students went to Princeton). In my class, in 1-2-3 on the SAT Math, I was #2 and #3 went to MIT. So, I didn't want to fall behind in math so got their calculus book and started studying in a quiet room. This effort worried Mom who would find excuses for me to get up and do something else, but I still did well. For my second year of college, I went to a college with an unusually good math department and started on their second year of calculus using the same text Harvard was using. To let me start on that second year, a prof gave me a little impromptu freshman calculus oral exam. So, with the quiet room technique, I never took freshman calculus -- later taught it, applied it, etc. but never took a course in it!
In math written as theorems and proofs, for a big source of good exercises, guess the next theorem. Check your guess. Given the theorem, close the book and prove the theorem. Doing this let me get the solution to a somewhat challenging Ph.D. qualifying exam question -- I did the best in the class on the qualifying exam. This approach to exercises is good, but it is too difficult, that is, too slow, to use for all the math need to learn.
Beyond that quiet room approach to learning, I found that to do well in graduate school, e.g., get respect from the professors, the key was, as soon as possible, do some publishable research. E.g., maybe have been pushed into an advanced course. Okay: Find some places the course and/or texts are not very clear, good, precise, complete, whatever, pick one of those, do some research to improve the situation, and publish the research. Remember: For good results, good initial problem selection can help a lot.
For calculus, yes, work through a good text and then, for a nice advantage, learn measure theory then, in particular, learn probability based on measure theory. Then in, e.g., statistics, you will have a gun while nearly everyone else has at most a knife.
But just calculus from a respected text can be powerful stuff. E.g., at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ8G4VKoSpQ
can see Einstein's special relativity done, apparently fully correctly, and where the only math used is ordinary calculus. Some 12 year old students can learn calculus plenty well enough for a lot in applications, including more advanced math.
Here is a special strategy that can work in the US: In US research universities, the math departments typically are in the school of Arts and Sciences. But such universities commonly also have engineering schools! Some of the people who give the big money like engineering more than arts and sciences! And there is the outside world! So, from contact with the outside world, maybe a job, full or part time, pick a problem where a good solution looks promising for some old/new math. Solve the problem, and publish it in a journal with a title like Journal of Theory and Applications in .... Some journals also like to promise candidate readers that they publish not just theory but actual applications!
So, the usual criteria for publication are that the material be new, correct, and significant. Well, easily enough the solution to the new real problem can be new. Since the solution is mostly math, can pass correct. Get significant from the real problem being significant. If the math saves $10 million a month in jet fuel cost for an airline, call that significant!
For the remark, essentially, need to think before writing, I go along with that for research and challenging exercises.
Note: For challenging exercises, I found that some good research is no more difficult than some such exercises -- the exercises are good preparation for research, etc.
Generally in applying some math, will likely find some places where the old math needs some improvement, at least for the application; so, make some such improvements, and get the significance from that of the problem. That is, for picking a research problem, the Riemann hypothesis is not the only option!
For an example, I picked a problem with the Kuhn-Tucker conditions and found a solution and published it. Later I found that the famous paper in mathematical economics by Arrow, Hurwicz, and Uzawa encountered a similar problem and had no solution. My work also solves their problem. I found this research problem just from some careful, quite careful, study of the Kuhn-Tucker conditions.
So that is a way around the bad in programs, teachers, books, exercises, etc.
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends. Some of these people (their parents) left their home country because of economic reasons. This is the primary reason for immigration from Eastern Europe to the EU and the UK. If you're in the US, yes, the visa selection program requirements make your average immigrant come from richer or more connected families. For instance quite a number of people left my country to the US using connections in neo prote…
> > people typically come from the richest/most connected families in their home country > It depends. Some of these people (their parents) left their home country because of economic reasons. Another common reason for leaving is discrimination. Those people who leave because of discrimination are very rarely well connected or wealthy, or they usually wouldn't have to leave. Then there are the outright asylum seekers…
Most international students are not there because of discrimination they faced. Most people who are seeking asylum or undocumented in the US are from the Americas.
For international students not from the Americas, most are wealthy or well connected by the standards of their home country, although often not by American standards. It's not uncommon to hear about the banker who became a taxi driver in the US, but what you hear less of is the farmer's kid - because they never even get a chance to come.
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
I buy into having a deeper understanding, and in both work and school, it's pretty clear who has a deeper understanding and who's going through the motions. That said, how is it that there's such range in pedagogy? So many people have studied teaching that you'd think we'd have a better idea of what works. Or maybe it's that goals are different.
Not goals - incentives. I'm from Czechia and for me math education changed dramatically for the last year of high-school. All of a sudden it was crunch time to get the best result at the standardized tests that are part of government's examination. Up until that point the math classes were very much Soviet-style understanding-first, daily hour-long homeworks that are described in the article. Final year was about tec…
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#396Lots of comments asking what is "Soviet/Russian Math" actually like, and how is it different. I was lucky to get an education in three systems (Soviet Math, Romanian Math School (influenced by both French and Soviet Math school), and finally in a world top 40 university in North America. I would summarize the Soviet/Russian Math/Physics approach like this: - understanding of the mechanism/intuition behind the equatio…
I've heard from many Russian immigrant friends who insist that Soviet education was one of the few areas that was done well in USSR. Particularly, mathematics, which, other than the obligatory Marx/Lenin quotes at the top of papers, tended to avoid ideological corruption.
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd be wary of forming an opinion on foreign education systems from international students, as they're generally of more privileged extraction compared to the unwashed masses who can't afford to study overseas.
Absolutely this. People seem to ignore selection effects when taking with immigrants from other countries, especially students. These people typically come from the richest/most connected families in their home country* *If they don't come from the Americas
So I might be comparing the best & brightest of Bulgaria, but in theory at least I'm comparing them against the best & brightest of America (though in practice I suspect it's more like the richest).
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think its not that it has to, its just more challenging and rewarding. I’ve read a lot about bulling and social problems in USA schools, but so almost none of that myself i Eastern Europe. I think the subjects where so hard that it forced kids to cooperate, smart kids where considered a resource that potential bullies didn’t like to harm, as they would help them in the future. Additionally there was this sense of ……
> bulling and social problems in USA schools, but so almost none of that myself i Eastern Europe This has changed for the worse with capitalism and social inequality. We had some bullying back when I was a primary school student but it was physical bullying by higher graders towards younger students and it was mostly done outside the school. We had none of the psychological bullying that you see in the US and to a gr…
I went to American public schools my whole life and never saw any evidence of bullying.
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an american who went through US-based curriculum in the 90s, this sounds FUCKING WONDERFUL . Basically - it seems like the approach above treats math as a conceptual playground, where you should develop intuition and understanding. Instead we seem to be going down the rote memorization route for most of our classes, where the goal was to apply an equation to some numbers and get the right answer, with little to no…
I could do calculus, in high school and college, but I wasn't very happy about it. Until I took a physics class in college which happened to be intended for the physics majors. Did the professor ever just present an equation and ask us to learn it? No! Every Single Physics Equation was explained from first principles, using calculus - a lot of integrals. Finally we were seeing a practical application, where calculus…
It did feel good to see a practical use for the calculus I had learned, much more so than determining how much the surface area changed after adding a layer of paint 0.01" thick to a tank.
Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
I went to a British university, CS course, at the age of 19, having completed my education in Poland. I had a very similar experience(except no one cared whether you wrote x or .) - basically at university it was like going back 5-10 years in terms of maths level. We were already doing advanced calculus in Poland in my last year at school(and being constantly told that we have to know it well or no one at university…
>British university, CS course Hmm.. In my experience this would have been discrete math at best which is normal in CS classes. You'd have to have taken an engineering elective or math elective to get linear algebra. Today, with AI being so hot, I'd bet that the programs include math for engineers e.g. matrices and linear algebra. Maybe an intro course in stats and probability.
The thing we called “linear algebra” involved linear maps and vector spaces and bases and dual spaces and no grids of numbers.