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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#391

Post by eloisius »

WA wrote: post #389
jseban wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you can wake up with nothing to do and panic over it. I would always have some hobby or sports project going that I know I'd always want to work on, I seriously can't understand how someone can run out of things to do when there's painting, music, cooking, sports etc, just one of those would keep me busy and socially connected for a lifetime.

Because if you drop out of the work force, you get a different perspective. There's painting and music and they are a good contrast to your work, a good way to spend time not thinking about work. But if there is only painting and music and cooking, it becomes kinda pointless, especially if most people you know don't have time during the day. You're doing this all alone.

Well said. Try quitting work and indulging those activities for a while. I don't think of myself as a particularly boring person. I love bike touring, and I live in a foreign country with all kinds of interesting places, food and culture to explore, yet doing it months on end I started to question whether _this_ was what all my hard work in years past was meant for. Did I save up all this money and liberate myself for this particular stroll around the neighborhood to take pictures? It felt unsettling.

I've been thinking about this all day, and I realized another experience it gives me similar feelings to. at 15 I absolutely hated public high school. I had been alt-schooled (home schooled, unschooled, something like that) up until 9th grade. After one year in regular school, learning at a mind numbing pace, I knew with conviction that I just wanted to finish school and get on with life, so I withdrew and enrolled in the local night school. I blew through classes and would have graduated in no time, but something started gnawing at me. I could finish school for the day at my own pace and then leave, but to do what? After leaving regular high school, my classmates were mostly troubled kids, or people trying to get their life back on track by getting a diploma. I fairly quickly realized that I was going to miss out on being in the rat race of high school for 4 years, and went back to regular school halfway through the school year.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#392

Post by euroderf »

psyc wrote: post #305
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20h/week That's what I have an issue with. When I'm working on a problem, I cannot simply forget about it at 3pm and head to the beach to enjoy life. The problem will be in my head 24/7 until one of us gives up.

In my 20s, I was very much like this. When I was struggling with burnout, an older colleague told me that when he leaves the building, he shuts work off entirely and enjoys unrelated things. At the time, hearing this frustrated me because I couldn't even begin to fathom which muscle one would flex in order to "shut off" thinking about work. But now I'm the age that he was back then, and I find I can compartmentalize…

Try this. Last thing at the end of the workday, write yourself a context save. Jot three to five sentences about where you are, what's in your head. If you do it right, the next morning you can brief yourself and jump right back into it. And in-between, not need to hold it in your head, grinding away in the background.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#393

Post by euroderf »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #333
leftbrain wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more thing I gotta add is that you will get used to any situation soon enough, especially if the benefits outweigh the discomforts. I did. You know how the time flies like every day seems long and before you know it a year has passed? It’s the opposite way out there. The days go by fast and after a couple of months and a couple of countries I felt like I’ve been traveling for some years already.

When I was a child, it seemed like time stretched on forever. Summers were luxuriously long. As an adult in his late 30's? Every day goes by fast; Good or bad. Everything feels like it's next shortest unit of time. Hours feel like minutes, Days like hours, Weeks like days, and so forth. I'm kind of hoping that time slows down a bit when I retire (mid 40's), but I doubt it.

It won't. Every day fits too easily in your head, a discrete block of time that whizzes by. Unless every day you can get really, really deeply into something that suspends time for you.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#394

Post by powerapple »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

That's why I work. Financial stability and being able to provide for my family would make me happy, at least happier than being poor.

Things are expensive. Happiness of your wife and kids are even more expensive.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#395

Post by Frost1x »

WA wrote: post #385
Frost1x wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole deeply-seated protestant belief that work ethic instills value in life always escapes me as well. There are so many things I'd love to do that don't even require a lot of financial resources or resources in general to accomplish beyond time, but unfortunately, due to needs like having a home and food, I have to work quite a bit and just can't find the time to do these things in those gaps. I understand the…

> There are so many things I'd love to do Like what?

I used to exercise 1-2 hours a day, everyday (I was in great shape), that's gone completely. I'd love to go hiking regularly, that rarely occurs now. I used to spend a decent amount of time doing amature photography, I don't anymore. There's a significant amount of home improvement I'm perfectly capable of doing, in fact, even enjoy aspects of, yet I have to pay others to do it from lack of time. I love gardening but that's completely impossible, I occasionally trim my hedges when they get to be a complete and utter mess. I love exploring music, movies. I took a few piano lessons as a kid and always enjoyed it, I wanted to buy a keyboard awhile back to practice and learn to play several of my favorite works but realized it would be a waste of money because I simply don't have time to learn it. In similar fashion, I've always been a huge fan of Spanish style acoustic guitar--I have no idea if I'd enjoy it or pursue it far but I'd love to at least try. I have friends and family around the country I barely have time to call/text anymore, some within reasonable yet time consuming driving distances--if I had time, I'd strengthen those relationships because they are people I enjoy being around. I've always loved cooking and have learned to make a few recipes over the years that are unique like my many ramen recipes. I rarely have the time to cook and refine recipes for anything remotely complex, usually just on an occasional weekend. I used to do this multiple times per week. My partner is an immigrant and speaks another language, I'd love to have time and capacity to learn that language since they know English, that way I could converse with some of their friends and family easier. I have a whole host of computing related endeavors I'd love to pursue but after work, I frankly don't want to touch anything resembling a computer, including my smartphone. I love biking, I currently drive drive work but could reasonably cycle there, but it's not time efficient, it would add an hour to my commute each day. I actually enjoy volunteering for certain things, especially teaching and tutoring. If I had time, I would (I have done this multiple times in the past but had to stop). I vastly enjoy personal time to explore philosophy and think through ideas, work through new perspectives, and refine my world view--I do this often but had to give up some of that mental capacity and time to work. I actually enjoy aspects of my work, I only wish I did less of the aspects I don't like and cut that time down to share with my other interests because while it's interesting and enjoyable to me, it's only one aspect that's interesting and enjoyable--just so happens to be the one that society pays me the most to share. I even enjoy participating in discussion groups online like this but only read and respond to a few things on occasion. There's a few things, the list goes on.

As to things I've never done but wanted to explore: carpentry. Woodworking always fascinated me and I'd love to try and learn enough to make some furniture for myself, friends, and family, perhaps because this is somethonf my father was skilled at. Could be something I try, hate, and never pursue but the time isn't there.

I do not get bored when I have free time, I always have ideas (and to be clear, motivation to actually act and pursue them--these aren't just 'ideas' they are actualized), unfortunately I have to choose the ones that fit in small time blocks or have the energy after a grueling intense week of dealing with complex yet nonsensical problems at work.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#396

Post by war1025 »

WA wrote: post #388
war1025 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having kids when and only when you want them? Sure. "Only have sex when you want a kid" has always been an option. > Having kids when and only when you want them, and fulfilling your biological urges? Not so much. Unsure if you're being obstinate or ignorant, but we've been married a decade and I assure you we have had sex several orders of magnitude more than the three times we conceived. Baby = Egg + sperm. Keep…

In your other comment, you wrote in a kinda magic-wishful-thinking way "you can only get pregnant if you really want kids". That is a contradiction to baby = egg + sperm. If a woman has sex without some kind of fertility awareness, she gets pregnant. If she knows when she ovulates and avoids sex during that time and 5 days prior, she might not get pregnant. Thing is: female libido is highest when the fertility in a c…

> In your other comment, you wrote in a kinda magic-wishful-thinking way "you can only get pregnant if you really want kids".

I really think you are all just intentionally misunderstanding me.

I am not saying "You can only get pregnant if you want to get pregnant"

I am saying "A couple in a committed relationship can fairly easily and reliably avoid having kids without the use of contraceptives if they don't want them."

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#397

Post by AlwaysRock »

dorchadas wrote: post #91
AlwaysRock wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'd love to be FI but even more I'd love to make what I make now and only work three days a week. Having more Me days then Employer days would really change my life.

This is the biggest reason I'll likely stay a teacher. I get plenty of 'me' days and, in a low CoL area, a decent enough salary. Sure, I'll likely never retire early (which was a goal of mine for a long time) and there are downsides, but it's better than how I see myself handling the alternative.

I've got a lot of family in the education space. They get paid shit money but having a solid two months off every year is pretty appealing.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#398

Post by neogodless »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #182
hesdeadjim wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where assumptions can get you in trouble. The Amish are extremely business savvy, shrewd negotiators, and have no issues being active members in the economy. They also own vast tracts of very valuable land (especially in Lancaster, PA). Combine that with being frugal and austere, and it's a recipe for wealth. For childcare, their community focus let's them share the burden amongst the larger group. Additional…

I will say this, if there is one thing I can do for my child (other than learning proper money management), when the time is right I will help them with the down payment on a home. Holy crap it's so much more important than renting. It seems like a hassle, I know, but building generational equity gives you such a leg up in the world.

In many areas, the amount you pay in rent isn't much different than what you pay in the ITI parts of PITI (principal, interest, taxes, insurance) plus the maintenance costs. On top of that, the difference between mortgage + maintenance and rent could be invested and growing over time.

There's no guarantee that buying a house will leave you richer than if you'd rented during the same time. Check out this calculator to explore your personal situation more closely, and examine the assumptions you make about growing wealth.

I know from personal experience, owning my first home, that I almost certainly would've been better off renting over that time period and investing the down payment and higher monthly payments than I ended up with having that house and equity. Sometimes you get lucky - and house prices go up and you sell at the right time (assuming you switch back to rent OR manage to then buy in a market where prices are lower than average.)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-cal...

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#399

Post by motioncuty »

monktastic1 wrote: post #176
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" Great insight that is worth repeating. One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down…

> One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down on jobs they hate that consume too much of their time and energy, only because they think it will better enable them to be happy later. On the FIRE subreddit, anyway, they're very clear that: 1. It's the FI part that rea…

"carefully thought through what it is you want to do with that freedom"

I used to think this way, now I severely disagree, I think nowwhat you want in life cant be anticipated with thought, it can only be hewn out of a rough stone through trial, error, success, and reflection. Atleast thats been my arc over the last 16 years working towards happiness and freedom.

For example, have you ever had a long term regret that you finally faced only to come away thinking, "Now that Im in this position, I should have never regretted not being here." The regret disappears and you feel much more confident in your ability to steer yourself.

You only gain true perspective through actions, not thought, how could you, your thoughts are siloed from reality.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#400

Post by motioncuty »

mgh2 wrote: post #110
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

We were built to work, to have purpose. Having meaningful work is key - this is what the FIRE movement misunderstood. By meaningful, I mean to someone other your yourself or your extended self (family). Our purpose is to serve others, not ourselves.

I was built to work a lottle bit everyday as part of a loving tribe, with a wide variety of skills and a direct experience of the fruits of my labor. Get me that and work becomes a blessing.
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