Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#391

Post by 88840-8855 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #291

Is anybody advocating for them or encouraging them in any way? I can’t think of a single group which aims to highlight men, uplift men, and encourage masculine behavior. These guys grew up in a school system of almost entirely women teachers, and popular media tells them that if they are successful in any way, it is due to oppression. It’s no wonder why they’re not succeeding. We spent the last 15 years telling them…

I have a good friend who is working in HR. She used to be in hiring, now she is in the talent and development stream. We are not in the same company.

A few weeks ago I was speaking about my impression that my company is forcing women into promotions and positions just for the sake of reaching targets. I said that it felt unfair towards male colleagues.

Her reply was something like this: Men had the advantage for thousands of years, now it is OK if they suffer and that women receive the advantage. This will balance it out.

I disagreed because the peers that those girls are competing against were not part of the "bad white old man" system. She disagreed and said that some "eye for eye is necassary".

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#392

Post by _fhnu » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

We ran out of frontier, and are rapidly running out of the sort of high-risk, high-reward opportunities that get young men excited. We need a new gold rush.

No one wants to sit in a cubicle for 35 years, grinding out pennies while having all your value extracted by a cadre of semi-literate, power-tripping middle managers who punish anyone that displays talent. Not only have a series of crashes in 2008 and 2020 firmly demonstrated just how rigged the game is, but everyone can see what everyone else is doing on social media. There's little opportunity to trick these men into believing they should work hard when they can clearly see so many people skating through life without any effort, and watch laborers have their livelihoods stripped from them during crashes while billionaire fortunes double. Bloomberg has lost the plot completely, they don't yet realize that the jig is up.

Want to get people excited about work? Bring back drinking and loud music at the office. Let people be themselves without having to put on a deliriously upbeat, false persona while sitting through endless, pointless meetings about nothing. Stop asking them to constantly fellate the worthless middle management caste. Pay them well.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#393

Post by username90 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #384

username90 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You studying social subjects that almost only women study is the exception, you can afford to be picky about this. Lots of guys would love to have a woman who shares their interest, but since so few women study technical topics they have to settle with women they have little in common with. And at that point whether they studied some social topic or no topic and did other stuff isn't high up on the list.

Thanks, that is some insight into why men who are primarily concerned with technical subjects would be unsatisfied with the dating market. However, I wouldn't claim that "almost only women" are concerned with the humanities subjects I mentioned above. Film criticism and scholarship on many branches of literature and music are still fields that draw either predominantly men, or have a pretty even gender balance.

If you take the subject and the adjacent subjects you get mostly women though, even if specific courses are more balanced. It is the same in technical courses, some of them like chemistry and biology have more even balance but overall there aren't a lot of women.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#394

Post by nxc18 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

The problem comes in when their parents die and they have no path to supporting themselves. Not everyone has an inheritance to look forward to.

Living at home and working isn’t really a problem, but entering the labor force at 40+ is not going to go well.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#395

Post by holoduke » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

UncleOxidant wrote: post #113

I've got two nephews aged 34 and 32 who still live at home and play video games all the time and rarely leave their rooms. Neither has ever had a job that lasted more than a month or so. Neither ever learned to drive even though they live in a town with little or no public transit. They haven't had any education beyond high school. They seem wholly unprepared to navigate life without their parents. It's a slow motion…

I had the same life till my 26th. I then stopped watching television, threw all games away and started studying computer science. I am so happy about that move. I am 40 now. Own multiple IT businesses and have a happy family. Game/TV addiction is really dangerous. You don't have to be a depressed person to fall into it.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#396

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #345

tristor wrote: post #305

This thread is full of people talking about cultural, societal, and economic factors that may influence this outcome. I've yet to see anyone mention the factor that I wish we more thoroughly investigated: health. This has been discussed in some articles at length, but we still haven't identified primary causes, but testosterone levels are falling in men (at a given age) at a pretty steady pace year over year. This is…

Could be. But lack of exercise would also lead to low T, and I'm quite confident that middle aged man without a job who lives with parents aren't exactly staying fit.

[deleted]

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#397

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

samlevine wrote: post #161

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

Dating isn't fun. At least it isn't for me as a middle aged divorce. I get matches, I meet interesting people and go on dates and the process is just emotionally exhausting. I would rather put in time into my job, or my friends, or my hobbies. If I can meet someone who wants to be part of my life, fantastic. If not, I will live until I don't.

As a 26 year old finishing up a Comp Sci degree, I'm in a similar camp. I mean I'd rate myself as a 5-6 straight up average. I get matches and have gone on several dates. What I've noticed is most men don't do profiles right at all. They show themselves off in what they do, not what's attractive. Also nobody every acknowledges that selfies are bad. I mean these are just little tips I've learned honing a profile over the course of a couple years.

But, thinking of dating like a resume, as well as making dates feel like interviews has made relationships nothing but a chore nowadays. It feels wholly like a business relationship without any contractual guarantees between the parties.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#398

Post by Chris2048 » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #39

CydeWeys wrote: post #36

Part of this problem is our societal failure to build enough housing to keep up with the increasing number of people, with a resulting increase in housing costs that has significantly outpaced the median wage. If you can't afford to live on your own, and can't afford housing where the jobs are located, then you're more likely to live with your parents and be unemployed.

Adding to this, we've also abandoned the idea of building out in the middle of nowhere and linking it to a city center with a rail line. I'd gladly buy a cheap home in the boonies if I could take a train into work instead of driving.

Or planned cities without private land ownership? The city can sell short term leases, but allow the leases to expire when it's time to re-zone.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#399

Post by wearywanderer » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #220

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #7

I see this on the fringes of those within my circle of friends. I know one man in this age cohort who doesn't seem to have a job, just plays video games all the time, and I don't get it. But one thing I think about is what he has been exposed to: this is what he knows. I don't think this individual I'm speaking of was raised with anything differently. In this same light, as I believe the two concepts are directly rel…

Videogames provide fake achievement and an easy thing to do to occupy you - I think some people are more vulnerable to this kind of thing than others. For me, the fake achievement feels fake and I don't get much satisfaction out of it - but for others I think it mimics real achievement enough that they can pour hours into it. Online dating sucks for most men - if you're not in the top 2% of attractiveness for men it…

I think some kinds of video games provide this more than others, at least for some definitions of achievement. If somebody spends their free time painting happy trees but never sells any paintings, I personally would not say achievements are fake. The painter sets their own objective and judge success by their own personal standards, but that doesn't make their achievements fake, right? And if they decide to depict things using lego instead of paint, is that fundamentally different? It's a different form of craft, but I don't consider building sculptures out of lego to be faker than doing the same from clay.

Some video games are essentially the same as that. For instance, creative-mode minecraft seems to be arts and crafts as much as it is a game.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#400

Post by rayiner » Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

But who raises the next generation under that scenario? Immigrants, of course, but what does that say about what American society has become?

This is not a “replacement” screed, by the way, but quite the opposite. If your culture requires constant immigration to survive, that means it’s unsustainable in the steady state. Like, it would be bad if everyone adopted your culture. Your culture is the panda of cultures.