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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

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Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#391

Post by brlewis »

chris_va wrote: post #204
pciexpgpu wrote: post #18

This is good. Now states are combating such hesitancy by drawing lottery for vaccinated folks. Like, having this magic, absolutely mind boggling potion that prevents serious illness and death *isn't* already the lottery win of our lifetime?? People in India and elsewhere are dying because of lack of vaccines and here we have educated, first world countries struggle to get their citizens vaccinated. Unfortunately sham…

Some class of vaccine hesitancy boils down to miscalculating expected value. The expected value of getting a vaccine is very high, but people choose not to anyway, presumably due to misinformation or miscalculation. Lotteries here are exploiting miscalculations of expected value to incentivize behavior (0.1% of saving my life? phaw, but $100 expected value?!). It feels a bit like patching a security bug with its own…

Exactly this. Dramatic videos of people experiencing adverse events following vaccination make the risk appear much bigger than it is.

COVID-19 being old news makes the risk appear much smaller than it is.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#392

Post by axbytg »

swader999 wrote: post #318
threeseed wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The messaging on masks should have been that only n95 or better are worth the time Which is simply rubbish. Masks of all kinds will prevent transmission albeit with varying levels of efficacy. And most importantly they impact human behaviour in ways which prevent transmission. Not to mention that N95 masks are more expensive which would have reduced its use by people who are poorer and are far more likely to spread…

Ones of all design do help with droplet suppression. They do sweet f all for airborne unless properly fit and of the right rating. Covid for all practical purposes behaves like it is airborne. If you haven't realized this by now, I don't know what to say to convince you. Maybe these will help: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

" In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks"

Wish you had read the studies you posted

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#393

Post by axbytg »

swader999 wrote: post #321
axbytg wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worth the time is completely relative to the observer. a piece of shitty fabric over your face won't stop n95 levels of transmission but it is better than nothing. To some of us, it's "worth the time" to be less likely to spread even if by a very small margin.

Actually no. A cloth mask can harbor dampness and increase flu transmission. It may give a false sense of security. See the two studies I posted.

" In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks" from the very study you posted.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#394

Post by kaba0 »

moralestapia wrote: post #295
analyte123 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that according to these papers, if there was vaccine mRNA in the reproductive tract immediately prior to or immediately after fertilization, then theoretically the spike protein could possibly get integrated into the offspring’s genome. But how could the vaccine mRNA end up in the reproductive tract? Seems unlikely. It’s intramuscular, not in a vein. The implications of sperm-mediated reverse transcription a…

That is one of the dumbest possible interpretations you could make from those references. The point was to show (to unfamiliar readers) that there exists plenty of mechanisms by which RNA -> DNA could happen, and it has been extensively studied and characterized.

That’s just misrepresenting. While there exists pathways for RNA->DNA, they are a niche occurrence happening on evolutionary timescales. It is not at all applicable to the 30 minutes of mRNA half-life of the vaccine.

And even just playing with the idea of our genome having the spike protein’s gene, it would either just sit there doing nothing (remember it is injected into muscle tissue) or get expressed. The former case would cause no problem (no descendant would inherit it as the gonads are not affected), and the latter would be trivial to see with a continuous immune response.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#395

Post by carbocation »

cameldrv wrote: post #353
carbocation wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you share your sources re: "recent studies giving [HCQ and ivermectin] credit"? I haven't seen anything positive about those drugs in COVID-19 in human patients. For example, the RECOVERY trial showed no benefit (and non-significant numerical harm) for HCQ: https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926

There are a lot of studies of varying quality, some of which show benefit for IVM and HCQ. One place to find some of these compiled is https://hcqmeta.com . Beware that they don't say what their study inclusion criteria is, so one has to be more skeptical of studies that have a small N and/or high P value. The RECOVERY results for HCQ were definitely negative. Personally I'm neutral on its effectiveness, but HCQ prop…

It's interesting to look at the forest plots on that page and only focus on RCTs, which are labeled. I cannot understand why someone would try to meta-analyze RCTs with observational studies when dozens of each exist. But this really hammers home (despite their misleading summary statistics at the top) that the evidence does not support an effect of HCQ on COVID-19.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#396

Post by throwawaysea »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #302
throwawaysea wrote: post #74

> The half-life of mRNA is a few hours. Any injected mRNA will be all gone from your body in a day or two. Can someone with more knowledge comment on whether this is true for components of the vaccine that aren't just the mRNA bits? I am not sure, but I assume there are various other components that form the delivery vehicle for the vaccine, stabilize it for storage, and so on. What are the actual mechanisms for thos…

I think that's kind of irrelevant, since those bits aren't the part that were causing concern. Nobody's worried that the part that stabilizes it for storage is going to "create a new humanoid race". That's purely based on (a misunderstanding of) the mRNA.

I wasn’t asking out of that same motivation. I was just wondering how true it is that the body gets rid of all the components of the vaccine and simply retains the benefit of antibodies with no “vaccine remnants”.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#397

Post by kaba0 »

lhoff wrote: post #147
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little bit like asking a random software engineer on the street on how GPU drivers work internally: they're unlikely to have an actual informed opinion.

Its actually a perfect example. But for the opposit argument. A random software engineer has a much deeper understanding about the inner workings of GPU then the average non-software engineer. So its a perfect analogy for asking a nurse about a health related topic. He probably doesn't know much about the immune system but he definetly knows more then the average population.

Really? :D I highly doubt that, as I personally did dabble with a bit of OpenGL and still know jackshit about GPUs. People are likely to overestimate their knowledge on things they know little about.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#398

Post by kaba0 »

Netcob wrote: post #94
macksd wrote: post #15

Absolutely agree with everything Linus says here. But I'm almost equally concerned that there's an awful lot of people on the pro-science bandwagon who don't actually support science, but simply don't tolerate dissent or questioning, and that's unscientific and potentially harmful too. I scanned most of the Pfizer trial and was wondering why we expected the immunity after the vaccine to last longer than natural immun…

Ever since the pandemic started, useful information was few and far between. I know that numbers scare people, but so much of this is basic risk assessment. The facts are extremely pro-vaccination, but good luck finding them! For example, the whole thrombosis / Astra-Zeneca issue, which was a big deal here in Germany. Lots of articles and discussions. Everyone was saying "don't use it on young people", but I don't ev…

There is also the issue of estimating very rare events. You need significantly more data to do so with any reasonable accuracy.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#399

Post by rodgerd »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #34

mRNA doesn't change your genetic sequence in any way. It is the exact same intermediate - and temporary - kind of material that your cells generate internally all the time as part of your normal cell processes The m in mRNA stands for messenger. I'm failing to find anything I consider to be a succinct explanation in layman's terms (other than the one in the piece under discussion: all that the mRNA vaccines do is to…

It's not brief but you might enjoy an expert chat about it: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vaccines/id1132951842?...

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#400

Post by rodgerd »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #2

> And if you insist on believing in the crazy conspiracy theories, at least SHUT THE HELL UP about it on Linux kernel discussion lists. I see Linus still hasn't changed much.

He's mostly changed quite a bit. I think this is a good case where Linus can have a little rant, as a treat.
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