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Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

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Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#391

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

cpursley wrote: post #355
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who travels, it is incredibly embarrassing to be associated with people like this. All I can think of when I see someone in pajamas on a plane is "hellooo white trash". I also feel bad for the flight attendants who have put so much into their appearance, and then have to babysit a sleepover party in a metal tube.

Pretty sure racism is prohibited on hn. This should be flagged.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be racist against Americans, I know they aren't all horrible. (But, you know, most of them....)

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#392

Post by fenomas »

pmoriarty wrote: post #230
chris_j wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (native English speaker) have noticed this a lot. The example that I remember most vividly is receiving advice while trying to cook food on a barbecue: A Portuguese speaking friend suggested that I "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue". It make perfect sense but sounded incredibly fancy to me. A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education.

"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people with poor educations will try to use fancy words to impress people (but often wind up just sounding pretentious). One of my pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize". Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I…

> pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize"

This battle is lost, but mine is "proceeded to". People seem to feel like it makes them sound more official - "He proceeded to enter the room, and he then proceeded to sit down." Once you start noticing it it's everywhere.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#393

Post by tbenst »

There is a notion of General or Standard American English [1]. Similarly, in Britain there’s Received Pronunciation [2].

Of course these are a social construct, but it’s not unfair to characterize that:

“General American English or General American (abbreviated GA or GenAm) is the umbrella accent of American English spoken by a majority of Americans and widely perceived, among Americans, as lacking any distinctly regional, ethnic, or socioeconomic characteristics.”

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American_English [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#394

Post by jll29 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #230
chris_j wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (native English speaker) have noticed this a lot. The example that I remember most vividly is receiving advice while trying to cook food on a barbecue: A Portuguese speaking friend suggested that I "move the burgers to the periphery of the barbecue". It make perfect sense but sounded incredibly fancy to me. A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education.

"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people with poor educations will try to use fancy words to impress people (but often wind up just sounding pretentious). One of my pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize". Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I…

When I first studied at an English university (having been halfway through a linguistics program in Germany) my fellow students said I "sound like a book".

As being told that is embarrassing, one quickly adjusts...

(Nice examples here on HN, like "utilize the periphery of the barbecue" [to place one more sausage on it].)

But a latter move to the US led to a repeat ("Hey dude, you talk like an alien?! Goofball!!") although the British accent was well liked.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#395

Post by irrational »

patrickthebold wrote: post #263
amirkdv wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dual origin story of the English language is quite fascinating! There's a Wikipedia page dedicated to a list of just what you described, synonymous words with Romance vs Germanic origins. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_with_d...

I noticed dove/pigeon on there: I was taking an Arabic class and the professor was Egyptian. At one point she mentioned 'Pigeons of peace', which sounded ridiculous to my ears since 'doves' are a peace symbol and not pigeons, even though they are the same animal.

I had no idea doves and pigeons are the same animal. Fascinating!

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#396

Post by crvdgc »

As a “non-native” English speaker, the single most influential class I took for learning English is lexicology. Each student is required to recite 500 Latin roots and 200 affixes. It's hard, but after that, the vocabulary capability grows exponentially.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#397

Post by dsr_ »

damagednoob wrote: post #270

> "I still encounter the situation when a stranger interrupts me after a few words I spoke to interrogate me: 'You have a strong accent. Where are you from?' It is a continuous reminder that you are forever an alien in your own country." Ugh. When will this victim mentality end? I'm a naturalised citizen in a foreign country and get asked this all the time because of my accent. It has never come across as anything le…

In my experience, it's usually interest and friendliness -- but after the first time you hear it used aggressively, you'll never forget that can happen.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#398

Post by tasogare »

> The whole concept of "mother tongue" is a political construct to keep certain people out, says Madani.

I'm starting to be very tired of reading this kind of statement everywhere. No, not every existing concept is a conspiracy to discriminate against some people. Not everything is a social construct (few things are). You [article author] are not a victim of a grand linguistic scheme established by men/White/English speakers/whatever to make you feel bad about your English level. The concept is valid and useful in language education.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#399

Post by quickthrowman »

hervature wrote: post #390
WalterBright wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A native English speaker would never have said that English has its barbarian roots overlaid with French words from the Norman conquest of England. The French aristocracy moved in and took over. The modern result of that is the "English" words of French origin are tells of upper class origins. Americans use that, consciously or unconsciously. Sometimes it's referred to as "coded speech". For example, someone from u…

Very interesting. The connection to French is not immediately obvious as both "purchase" and "buy" would translate to "achat". However, "por chase" in French is "for the chase/hunt" which begins to resemble some definition of "purchase".

Norman/Saxon meat/animal word pairs are interesting; the saxons were the hunters and farmers, and the normans ate the meat. This led to a bunch of word pairs:

  Beef/cow  
  Poultry/chicken  
  Pork/pig  
  Veal/calf  
  Mutton/sheep
There are other areas of English vocabulary with dual Saxon/Norman words as well.

Bill Bryson has a great book that explores how English became what it is now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_Tongue It’s an easy read with lots of interesting info.

Re: Nonnative English speakers share their gripes about speaking English

#400

Post by ithkuil »

mrec wrote: post #373
pmoriarty wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A native English speaker would never have said that... unless they had received a really expensive education." There's the opposite problem, too, where people with poor educations will try to use fancy words to impress people (but often wind up just sounding pretentious). One of my pet peeves is hearing people using the word "utilize". Just say "use"! It sounds far less pretentious and means the exact same thing. I…

> I try to use a five cent word when even a five dollar word would do "Short words are best, and old words when short are best of all." -- Winston Churchill

Minuscle locutions are preferable, and superannuated locutions are pre-eminent
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