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Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

reuters.com

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Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#391

Post by nostrademons »

marcusverus wrote: post #375
vmception wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work No different than cellular reception in an underground subway, you dont have to think about it anymore

> USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more Even these cryptos aren't being used as currencies per se. They're popular, sure, but they're popular because A) they allow traders to move funds between crypto 'investments' without converting to fiat (i.e. without triggering cap gains), and B) They allow investors to "avoid market volatility" (but in a manner far riskier than fiat, given that e…

If the trader is being honest, converting cryptocurrencies to stablecoins is a taxable event triggering capital gains. The IRS considers any exchange of one cryptocurrency for another to be a sale of a capital asset and purchase of another.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#392

Post by gruez »

deschutes wrote: post #301
inter_netuser wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

base layer tps is low because it is designed for survival in most adversarial of conditions. It is a heavy duty tank, not a sport bike. Would you take M1 Abrams tank to race at Nurburgring? They have a different function. Lightninig/Payment channels, backed by the same baselayer security guarantees, can operate at literally unlimited tps. The only ceiling is how fast you can send packets back and forth. Miners do not…

What's stopping your adversaries from seizing hardware? Nothing? So the system relies folks playing nice in the physical world? The whole thing is a ridiculous fantasy with an asinine threat model.

Because there's threat models with less threat than "US sending a fleet of aircraft carriers to go after you".

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#393

Post by imtringued »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #45
coldcode wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at least gold has some inherent value, crypto is just math that is worth whatever the buyers/sellers think it should be. Stock in a company that stays in business will never go to zero as the company always has some value due to having revenue, but crypto has no real world floor (though unlikely to actually get to zero since someone will always buy).

Silly comparison. Crypto holds value for its utility. Why do you seem to think that its utility will just vanish?

>Crypto holds value for its utility.

You mean ETH and the ability to bypass capital controls? Sure, I'll accept that these things exist but that doesn't mean I can accept needless power consumption. Bitcoin bubbles don't meaningfully contribute to avoiding capital controls.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#394

Post by nikanj »

marcusverus wrote: post #375
vmception wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more People dont have to talk about them as currencies because they just work No different than cellular reception in an underground subway, you dont have to think about it anymore

> USDC, DAI, USDT are all used more than ever, orders of magnitude more Even these cryptos aren't being used as currencies per se. They're popular, sure, but they're popular because A) they allow traders to move funds between crypto 'investments' without converting to fiat (i.e. without triggering cap gains), and B) They allow investors to "avoid market volatility" (but in a manner far riskier than fiat, given that e…

I'd be very surprised if your tax agency agrees that moving via USDT does not trigger capital gains.

Then again, I'm operating under the impression most people cheat on their taxes w.r.t cryptos

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#395

Post by gruez »

Grustaf wrote: post #328
notyourday wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So trading pink seashells for grey seashells?

Sea shells have intrinsic value, cryptos don't.

What's the difference between:

* seashell (intrinsic value: $0.01, market value: $100.00)

* seashell token (intrinsic value: $0.00, market value: $99.99)

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#396

Post by matheusmoreira »

endisneigh wrote: post #194
patwolf wrote: post #153

I've been trading Bitcoin for several years and have gone through the various booms and busts of that time. I'm not sure I'm ready to call this a crash when it's back to where it was a few months ago. The idea of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is addictive, but there's always the sobering moment when you realize how limiting it is. I tried to transfer some a few months ago and was hit with $25 in transaction fees…

how is 20% down not a crash?

It's a crash on a traditional market such as stocks. On the cryptocurrency market, a real crash would result in figures in the -90% range.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#397

Post by [deleted] »

pilingual wrote: post #233
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

Thank you for the disinterested take! It's refreshing to see this as a top comment when so often I see "Crypto makes me sick" which offers zero information and doesn't belong on HN. A few points to the repetitive comments I keep seeing: 1. Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme. Various cryptocurrencies operate in such a manner, but Bitcoin and Ethereum have value propositions: settlement and programmable money respectively.…

[deleted]

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#398

Post by onemoresoop »

paulpauper wrote: post #47
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

30% decline in a day is a crash by any definition

If it bounces back within the same day is it still considered a crash? It seems like BTC is now down by around 7 percent and recovering somewhat. When it starts growing again the amnesia will take over with a general euphoria and the cycles continue. I've been following cryptos for a while now and this doesn't seem like something extremely uncommon.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#399

Post by paulpauper »

cableshaft wrote: post #382
paulpauper wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of risk-adjusted returns, Bitcoin worse than index funds. You can get smoother returns using 3x ETFs like TQQQ and TECL compared to bitcoin and about the same absolute returns. Nasdaq 100 has much better sharpe ratio compared to bitcoin. Same for FAAMG portfolio

If you're holding as long as most people do index funds (i.e. 5-10+ years), historically you would have been way better off putting that money into bitcoin. Even taking this crash into account, I'm way up on crypto compared to my 401k. Not going to stop putting money into my 401k though, for the sake of diversification.

The bulk of btc gains were from 2010-2013. The cagr of BTC from early 2018 onwards is not that great.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#400

Post by jerf »

broighbrobroigh wrote: post #338
XorNot wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still an actual rock though. Cryptocurrency is less then that . Cryptocurrency is expended energy. You can't use a cryptohash for anything . Whereas I can melt down gold and make earings with it.

A failure of imagination to do something useful with crystalized math is more a commentary on the failure of imagination vs. the utility of math. If you compare any esoteric financial instrument against the melted rock utility test that you mention, the laity will err on the side of melted rocks.

"A failure of imagination to do something useful with crystalized math"

I don't think I could possibly describe BitCoin as "crystallized math". It's not like it is somehow convertible into some useful solution to some other math problem. It's a solution to a math problem that is essentially designed to not be useful for anything else on the grounds that said "utility" would be a potential mechanism for cracking the hash algorithm. (e.g., if you built a "hash function" that also provided a solution to some isomorphic bin packing problem, your hash function would have the weakness that the correspondence would reveal a lot a lot of theoretical bits about what was hashed.)

Besides, even if it is "crystallized math" than said math is independent of BitCoin's utility itself. If it were that useful you could go compute hashes until they have large numbers of zeros on the front all by yourself, without having to be involved with BitCoin. Since nobody has any conceivable use for such a thing as evidenced by the complete failure to do so, I have no idea what you think you're saying here. Merely working really hard at some computation does not make that computation useful for any other purpose.

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