Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#391

Post by CivBase » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

Reminds me of when Jamie Oliver tried to convince kids that chicken nuggets were bad by showing them how nuggets are made. Even after showing disgust at the whole process, all of the kids still wanted to eat chicken nuggets at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKwL5G5HbGA

I think it takes a lot more than logic to convince most people to change opinions - especially on matters of preference or taste.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#392

Post by Nick87633 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

kqr wrote: post #292

GordonS wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally fully agree, but unfortunately not everyone thinks as logically as you or I. I talked about this with my wife recently, and even though she had a vague idea of the horrors that mined diamonds bring, she'd still continue to buy/want mined diamonds. She sees mined diamonds as more "real", and finds it difficult to believe that her diamonds in particular would be part of the problem - as if it somehow would…

There's also a common line of reasoning that roughly goes "well this particular diamond has obviously already been mined, so no additional harm is caused by me wanting it." Obviously you and I see that even that line of reasoning alone jacks up demand for an awful business, but not all people have the capacity to reason that abstractly about how their behaviour plays a part in a very big aggregate. ---- My wife did g…

I've had jewelers make custom jewelry with stones I brought. Maybe you haven't found the right one yet.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#393

Post by sangnoir » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

beervirus wrote: post #356

adamhp wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn. This is one of those cases where you have to be slightly impressed even when the act is nefarious or the result negative...

It’s just marketing. I’d call this a hell of a lot less nefarious than modern adtech.

Isn't modern adtech a subset of marketing?

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#394

Post by webinvest » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

cmod wrote: post #232

If you want to read about the insanity of manipulation in the diamond industry, this Atlantic article on de Beers from 1982 is a … gem. Of the many shocking moments, one that stood out to me was the way they went after post-war Japan to convert their "backwards" desires to ones of a more "forward-thinking" diamond friendly impulse: "J. Walter Thompson began its campaign by suggesting that diamonds were a visible sign…

This has for a long time now been the best article I’ve ever read from The Atlantic and I used to be a magazine subscriber. If you haven’t read it already, I highly recommend it!

Anyone care to share their own favorite articles?

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#395

Post by lief79 » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #20

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

If you are on the same page as your partner, you'll have no trouble sorting this thing out. In my case I bought a joke ring that cost me about 2$ in a toy store. If you are not on the same page as your partner, you have more important concerns than a stupid ring of metal.

I proposed with a ring-pop (after going with her to order a custom engagement ring (with an inherited diamond).

Now, I do have to keep a stock of ring pops around to surprise her with on occasion.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#396

Post by chimeracoder » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

faeyanpiraat wrote: post #364

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

This might have been the wrong way to run this experiment. The fact that the participants publicly shared their opinion, and then they would also publicly had to signal that they were wrong could simply be such a big psychological factor, that the topic at hand did not matter. It would’ve been better to vote anonymously, or even better ask one class at the beginning and a different class at the end of the lecture, th…

On the other hand (pun not intended) diamonds are primarily used this way in engagement/wedding rings, which is a social signifier, so asking this question in the context of social pressure is arguably a better estimate of how people would behave for a form of conspicuous consumption.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#397

Post by EricE » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #328

vagrantJin wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim,…

Your comment shows your understanding of the diamond industry comes from a few articles you read on the internet, like an anti-vaxx person crying foul about vaccines. The facts, about 50% of the diamonds in the world come from Western countries like Australia, Canada and Russia. Another very large percentage come from stable African countries like Botswana and South Africa. There's no child labor in any of these coun…

https://danwin.com/2010/08/how-de-beers-diamonds-won-over-th...

You sure you want people to really know about "the industry"?!?

I view Debears as industrious as the Casinos. They produce nothing but feelings created by predatory practices at an astonishingly high price.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#398

Post by _fat_santa » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

faet wrote: post #227

tda wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an article the other day that talked about the resale value of diamonds. Basically jewelers refuse to buy back diamonds at any reasonable price (compared to original retail value. And refuse to make new rings with old diamond etc. So there is very little market for second hand diamonds. Sounds like a business ready to be disrupted Edit: Found the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/fashion/jewelry-d…

Diamond prices are fairly stable, the issue is jewelers mark prices way up and most people don't know what a good price is. If a diamond goes for $5k wholesale, chances are they're looking to sell it for $10-20k. Since most people only buy 1-2 engagement rings in their lifetime they don't know what is a reasonable price. They "shop around" at three stores that are all owned by the same company. So they end up paying…

I feel like if you took and old diamond ring, reset it and refinished it, there would be no way to tell that it was "used". Maybe resetting it will introduce some flaws that weren't there before.

Kind of crazy when people say they want a "new" diamond, uh....well all of them are literally millions of years old unless it's lab grown.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#399

Post by brap » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #350

throwawayosiu1 wrote: post #334

I'm at the marriage age right now and I see tons of my friends getting married. A friend got proposed a couple of months ago and her ring is ~40k USD. In my opinion, that's crazy since they're spending ~30k CAD on their wedding. My partner also mentioned that she'd like a wedding ring of the same calibre since according to her - diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her. Furthermore, a significant…

Wow, you might want to talk with your partner about buying a ~40k ring. That seems like it could be a big sticking point in a marriage, especially considering it could pay for an entire university degree.

And it's probably not going to be a one-off thing...

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#400

Post by xyzelement » Tue, May 04, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

I really love this topic because it's been fascinating to watch my own thinking on it change.

There are many comments below that come from the point of view that diamond rings don't make sense. On one hand this is completely true. On the other hand, whether they do or don't make sense depends on who's evaluating and there are many perspectives one could come at this from.

I wanted to share my point of view and how it evolved in case it helps as nuance (or helps people understand when their partner is coming from)

Growing up really poor and practical, I thought of diamond engagement rings as really stupid and impractical and that I would either never buy one, or buy one begrudgingly.

Fast forward to a few years ago I met the woman that I am now married to. She grew up very differently from me and in many ways we think very differently. For example she values "how things work" and "tradition" much more than I do, because I focus on first principles thinking and how things ought to change.

So her attitude towards diamond rings wasn't "I need something this expensive" or "you'll do it if you love me" but simply "this is how it works."

It would be easy to say that my attitude was more nuanced and evolved but I also recognized that I had dated plenty of women who thought more like I do (in general and perhaps on this topic specifically) but that I didn't want to marry them. That I wanted to marry this woman because of who she is, and her tradition focus is part of that, and her attitude towards diamonds is part of THAT.

I also noticed how women around her felt about their rings. They loved them and thought they were special. Her parents had just celebrated their 40th anniversary and her dad chose to buy her mom a new diamond ring which she loves.

So here I was and my option was to either "put my foot down" and have our engagement go along my original principles or to recognize that my partner by nature of who she is sees it differently and to recognize how much joy and sentiment she will get out of it. I realized it's a no-brainer.

I ended up having fun with it. Visiting old Jewish diamond dealers in dusty and super secured upstairs offices in NYs diamond district. Looking through loupes at the makeup and imperfections until I found a stone that resonated with me.

Long story short I don't regret the approximately 20k I had spent for a second. It has brought more than than worth of joy already. I "get it" more now than I did before.

We can say it's all marketing but everything is marketing, or rather product market fit. We don't really judge people for spending more money (or its equivalent, time) on things that make them happy. If someone spends 20k more on a car because they love it, or have 20k worth of vintage video games in their house, we don't get worked up about it. Those things are marketing too but the product resonated with the audience and I think the diamonds are much the same.

Again it's all about who you are proposing to. The person's attitudes towards things are holistic. If I wanted to marry someone who thought more like I used to, I could have. But turned out the partner I needed was someone who thinks differently - and when you do that you have to accept that and make them happy in a way that makes sense for them.